QT: A question of ideology

submitted by loveSloaneDebate King from self.GCdebatesQT

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[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

In most cases no one can force you to use someone's preferred pronouns. There are exceptions. Where I live the student bill of rights for public says students have the right to be addressed by a pronoun consistent with their gender identity. I have no problem with this. It's not hard to say she. I always use people's preferred pronouns. Though I do consider misgendering rude and I wont take you seriously if you misgender someone. Magdalen Berns did a video responding to a video by Riley Dennis and she kept referring to Riley as he. Because of that I automatically dismissed her arguments. She's entitled to speak her mind, I'm entitled not to take her seriously.

I don’t really think we can tell someone “you’re belief is wrong so stop believing it.”

Do you think TRAs have the power to compel you to think a certain way?

[–]loveSloaneDebate King[S] 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I’m not really sure your response answers what I’m asking but I get what you’re saying. (Eta- nevermind i see you’re responding to a comment, not the post) I feel like with the pronoun thing- it goes against my beliefs. It’s that simple. Yes it’s easy to say “she.” It’s not easy to say it knowing it reinforces an ideology that you find harmful and offensive. As much as it would bother a TW to be called “he”, it bothers me to call a TW “she.” As far is it being in the student Bill of rights- that’s exactly the type of thing I’m talking about- why and how is it fair to force some students to speak against their own beliefs in favor of another student’s beliefs? That’s the question I’m asking with my post.

As far as not taking someone seriously for misgendering- that’s... I just feel like if I can listen to and engage with someone I consider a man talk about themself as a if they are a woman it’s just interesting to hear that some people on the other side can’t be bothered to discuss something that concerns both of us because I won’t capitulate to their views. Riley Dennis is a misogynist who speaks in incel- even if that’s not applicable to all TW, it damn sure applies to Dennis- the fact that you’ll listen to Dennis pressure others about sexuality but not someone who speaks against that is a red flag imo. To automatically dismiss someone’s arguments over pronouns seems like finding an excuse to run away from the argument. That’s just how I see it and I’m bad at wording things more kindly I apologize.

You consider it rude to refuse to use someone’s preferred pronouns- I think it’s even worse to force someone to speak in a way that conflicts with their beliefs for the sake of someone else’s beliefs. Like- infinitely worse.

I don’t think anyone has the power to compel someone to think a certain way- but I do think tras have a way of making allies feel guilty for their own sexuality and bodies, and I think they often push a narrative that tells whoever listens that if they don’t accept the tra stance on sexuality, sex, and what makes someone a woman or a man (all areas they seem to still be working out as every week something else is transphobic and their usage of sex and gender changes as they need it to imo)- they’re a bigot. Tras have a tendency to tell the rest of us that we need to think how and what they think, and if we don’t, we get threatened, dismissed, labeled, and if applicable “canceled”. People lose jobs, get social media accounts suspended, etc all for thinking something tras don’t want us to think, and expressing it. That’s part of my question- does your school’s student bill of rights dictate that any and all ideological practices any student may hold be observed and practiced by all students, or is it just the preferred pronouns of trans students?

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers 1 insightful - 3 fun1 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 3 fun -  (1 child)

To us the trans movement is not an ideology, it's a fact of life. If you identify as a man, you're a man. If you identify as a woman, you're a woman. By the way, the pronoun rule applies to staff, not students and I have no issue with it. Though even in high school I used she for a trans girl.

Riley is an incel. She made a video about how dating preferences are discriminatory. It wasn't about just refusing to date trans people. It was also about refusing to date people who are black, fat or disabled. That is wrong. You can refuse to date anyone for any reason. Though the video Magdalen was responding to was about "TERFs".

We can't control who we are attracted to and we can refuse to date or sleep with whoever we want. I myself have rejected some cis men because they were ugly and I just wasn't attracted to them, even though they found me hot. That's just part of live. I think most TRAs agree with this. Riley apparently doesn't.

I absolutely feel people shouldn't be threatened for stating their opinions, even if they are bigoted. but I also feel people should have the right to dismiss your opinions if they dont agree, the right to boycott your products (like Harry Potter books) or refuse to eat at your restaurant. Also if you don't like sites banning your content you can create your own site, like GC did with Ovarit. That's actually more advantageous because they don't have to follow Reddit's rules.

[–]SnowAssMan 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

A fact of life? Do men who want to be women exist, or do they inexplicably turn into women (retroactively too, erasing the fact that they were ever men who wanted to be women) as soon as they feel that way? What part of 'woman' is it they covet so much anyway? Apparently men can be both feminine & female according to the trans movement's definitely-not-an-ideology. So what's the motivation? What's the difference between a feminine female "man" & a 'woman'?