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[–]emptiedriver 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

In most cases no one can force you to use someone's preferred pronouns.

It's become very expected - the idea of "force" here is extreme. No one can force you to do anything, really. No one can force you not to kill another person, right? You are just risking arrest and trial but you can still do it if you really want! You're just accepting possible consequences.

But the point is, it's become culturally unacceptable to not use the pronouns asked of you. It's become dangerous to careers, family relationships, general social standing. You are labeled a "bigot" and equated to someone who commits hate crimes and does not accept homosexuality or people of other races. It's not just an ordinary choice in many situations: it comes with cultural judgment.

Disagreeing about religion is not the same. In modern society it's okay to respect someone's right to believe in God but at the same time say that you do not. People don't feel like they have to hide it and pretend they go to church. It doesn't generally put your job in danger to state that you are not religious.

These things get complicated since the idea that you can have "different beliefs" is complicated. Maybe sometimes you just can't respect someone whose beliefs seem unjust. But on the other hand, maybe you just don't understand why they believe it, and it's not as hateful as you are assuming. Maybe we can talk about it sometimes, and give people the benefit of the doubt & respect difference when we're not up to getting into a debate. At very least, it gets more of what people actually think out into the open, and allows more points of view ...

Though I do consider misgendering rude and I wont take you seriously if you misgender someone. Magdalen Berns did a video responding to a video by Riley Dennis and she kept referring to Riley as he. Because of that I automatically dismissed her arguments.

But isn't this forcing someone to use pronouns? If you won't listen to a person unless they follow your rules about pronoun usage, then at least within your sphere you are forcing pronoun usage - they will not be allowed into your sphere otherwise. Christians could say it's rude not to end every conversation with a mutual "blessed be the Lord" (it doesn't mean anything to you after all). People who believe they're cats could say it's rude not to meow when they enter rooms (is it really costing you anything?).

Do you think TRAs have the power to compel you to think a certain way?

It is just social pressure - if you have the influence to get enough to follow, you can compel people to behave the way you like or risk social exile. No one has to actually agree, just feel too meek to be the one to speak up

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

But the point is, it's become culturally unacceptable to not use the pronouns asked of you. It's become dangerous to careers, family relationships, general social standing. You are labeled a "bigot" and equated to someone who commits hate crimes and does not accept homosexuality or people of other races.

First people are entitled to their opinions and if they feel you're a bigot, that is their right. You are more than welcome to find friends who agree with you. There are sites and apps specifically to meet people who share your interests.

But isn't this forcing someone to use pronouns?

It's not. She has every right not to use Riley's preferred pronouns. I have every right not to listen to her. It goes both ways.

[–]emptiedriver 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

It's not. She has every right

Once again, couldn't we say that I have every right to murder someone (or, how about, punch someone in the face), I just have to accept that I might get arrested and sent to jail for it? To say someone has "every right" to do something except that it comes with certain social limitations is very misleading. If I want to be your friend, I do not have "every right" to use the biological pronouns, right? If I want to be part of your social circle, I have to agree to use the requested pronouns.

As you say, I can choose to not be your friend, but can I choose to not work at my job, go to my school, attend my co-op meetings or whatever other places the issue might come up? At what point does it go from politely respecting differences to attempting to insure that the wrong form of thinking ends? You can say you aren't "forcing" ideas, but are there things you don't believe that you also don't exile people from your social circle for believing (maybe some on the animal rights, abortion, death penalty, jesus, metaphysics scale..) ?

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

You can always find another social circle.

[–]emptiedriver 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Fine, but can I always find another job, school, neighborhood? And should I have to due to a difference in belief? We don't request that people publicly agree to certain or even popular thinking when it comes to other political or religious thinking