GC: I believe if features are sexed, and secondary sex characteristics are innate to a man or a woman, then sex is determined by secondary sex characteristics and the gender essentialism that tras believe in is true. If you disagree, then tell me your reasons

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[–][deleted]  (9 children)

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    [–]MissDimples 1 insightful - 3 fun1 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 3 fun -  (6 children)

    I'm female, just because I have a vagina doesn't mean I'm well-versed in or that familiar with female biology. Actually, before I got my first period in highschool, I thought periods meant some white thing would come out of me, and I was wrong.

    Question: why would reconfigured organs not be the real thing? Let's say a neopenis is reconfigured arm skin, or vagina, and a neovagina is reconfigured penis, why would you say that a reconfigured arm skin, or vagina that looks and feels like a real penis is not a real penis? Or a reconfigured penis that looks and feels like a vagina not a real vagina?

    And regarding the men and women who remove their genitals due to injury or other issues, why would they still be men or women when they have no genitals and no gametes? Aren't genitals and gametes the two things that determine sex according to GC? Why would one still remain the sex they were after the two determinants of sex are lost?

    [–]CatbugMods allow rape victim blaming in this sub :) 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    Not knowing what anatomy you have does not make it less related to your sex.

    Have you ever seen a pseudopenis? A pseudovagina? They do not look the same, feel the same, or function the same. If I construct a very detailed facsimile of a penis with the pork roast currently in my oven, does it become a penis? What about if it looks and feels very convincing?

    You misunderstand the gc stance on sex. Ones sex is the reproductive role they would potentially play. The body developed according to one of two possible plans barring a disorder of sexual development. Either to produce sperm or to produce ova. The actual production of either being removed due to injury/illness/age etc does not change the role they developed to play in procreation. So their sex clearly does not change.

    [–]MarkTwainiac 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

    I'm female, just because I have a vagina doesn't mean I'm well-versed in or that familiar with female biology. Actually, before I got my first period in highschool, I thought periods meant some white thing would come out of me, and I was wrong.

    I am sorry you are so in the dark about your own biology and human biology in general, and that you are depressed as well. Not being informed about your own body can feed into and even cause depression and feeling powerless.

    To learn about your biology, please get an old copy of "Our Bodies, Our Selves" and some basic biology books. Your local library will have plenty. There's lots of material and biology course available online as well.

    Question: why would reconfigured organs not be the real thing? Let's say a neopenis is reconfigured arm skin, or vagina, and a neovagina is reconfigured penis, why would you say that a reconfigured arm skin, or vagina that looks and feels like a real penis is not a real penis? Or a reconfigured penis that looks and feels like a vagina not a real vagina? A pocket of flaccid flesh meant for penetration and "validation" purposes surgically inserted into a male pelvis made out of penile and scrotal skin - or pieces of male colon, peritoneum, thigh or back skin - is nothing like a real vagina.

    It's only in the perception/opinion of some males that there's such a thing as "a reconfigured penis that looks and feels like a vagina" and is a dead ringer for a "real vagina." A real vagina is a muscular, elastic, self-cleaning organ with its own unique flora and biochemistry and a remarkable ability to expand and contract in order to facilitate childbirth. Another fundamental function of the vagina is the passage of menses.

    Where have you seen or heard of a "vagina that looks and feel like a real penis"?

    Aren't genitals and gametes the two things that determine sex according to GC?

    No, this is not the view "according to GC."

    According to biologists and science, and those who are GC who understand basic biology, what determines the sex of individuals in sexually-reproducing species is whether from the time of conception development occurred along one of two pathways - one with the potential capacity to produce small gametes at some point in life; the other with the potential capacity to produce large gametes at some point in life.

    Genitals are not what determine sex - the gonads one is meant to have developed are.

    Only male gonads are genitals "between the legs." Female gonads are internal organs in the abdomen - not between the legs.

    [–]MissDimples 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

    I don't know if you're being sarcastic or if you genuinely mean you feel sympathy for me for being in the dark about my biology and being depressed, but if you are being genuine then thank you 😊. I will try to get my hands on that book online, if I don't find it online, I will see if the library has it.

    It's only in the perception/opinion of some males that there's such a thing as "a reconfigured penis that looks and feels like a vagina" and is a dead ringer for a "real vagina." A real vagina is a muscular, elastic, self-cleaning organ with its own unique flora and biochemistry and a remarkable ability to expand and contract in order to facilitate childbirth. Another fundamental function of the vagina is the passage of menses.

    Where have you seen or heard of a "vagina that looks and feel like a real penis"?

    I didn't know that about the vagina. I actually started hating my vagina because there's always this sharp pain when I'm on my period, I don't look forward to periods, the pain starts a week before the period (I have PMS) and I can barely walk the first 3 days when the bleeding starts. I don't want this to be graphic so I will stop there.

    But yeah, it seems to not be that bad.

    What about the penis? Do you know what differences there are between penis and neopenis, even if the neopenis really looks and feels like the real penis? 🤔

    [–]MarkTwainiac 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

    I was being sincere, not sarcastic at all. I really think you'd benefit enormously by learning about female biology.

    I actually started hating my vagina because there's always this sharp pain when I'm on my period, I don't look forward to periods, the pain starts a week before the period (I have PMS) and I can barely walk the first 3 days when the bleeding starts. I don't want this to be graphic so I will stop there.

    I sympathize. I had severe, debilitating pelvic pain when I ovulated and when I menstruated for most of my adolescent/adult life. But the locus of my pain was not my vagina, it was my ovaries and uterus. The vagina is not usually the cause of of menstrual and ovulation pain.

    Politics aside, the more you know about your different organs and their different functions, sensory capacities and the nerves that are linked to them, the better you will be able to describe and locate the source of your pain and find ways to resolve it.

    Rather than spend your time debating esoteric matters on contentious forums like this, please consider refocusing your time and energy on issues and support forums that have a direct bearing on your own physical and mental wellbeing.

    Even though I have vehemently disagreed with views you've expressed here, I wish you well as a fellow/sister human being. Please take care of yourself and seek information and support outside of social media. Best wishes to you.

    [–]MissDimples 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

    Thank you! I wish you well too and hope you have a happy holidays!

    [–]MarkTwainiac 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    Please take care of yourself first before immersing yourself in, engaging with, all this gender ideology BS any more. It's not good for anyone's mental health, and it's further damaging to women's sense of self and self-esteem. And you in particular are not going to have any chance of winning any arguments about human sex when you, as you have now made clear, know so little about human biology, even your own.

    Happy holidays to you too. I hope you will be able to come out of your current depression and will have a lifetime of good physical and mental health.

    Edit added: PS - I am dealing with severe depression and serious, disabling physical illness myself, so I know what it's like not to have energy or the will to do much. Some days brushing my teeth seems as difficult as climbing Mt Everest. I really do sympathize with your situation. But when any of us makes a choice to engage in online debates, it's not fair to say we can't be held to basic standards of discourse due to depression or other illness. It's an underhanded tactic.

    Again, best wishes.

    [–]peakingatthemomentTranssexual (natal male), HSTS[M] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

    Comment was removed for violating sub rules. OP was given an opportunity to edit. I really dislike having to remove comments so please considering editing in the future.

    Original: TIM/TIF are not allowed in this space. The sidebar recommends substitute terms like trans natal male or trans natal female. Please edit your comment when you are able. Thanks!

    [–]grixitperson 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    Comment is permitted. Tim and Tif are perfectly reasonable terms. After all, we allow that hateful term "cis".