QT/Transmed: Where does gender (identity and roles) come from?

submitted by DistantGlimmer from self.GCdebatesQT

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[–]SnowAssMan 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

"Gender critical" is vague. I'm gender abolitionist. When are you going to substantiate that accusation of yours? Oh right, never.

[–]peakingatthemomentTranssexual (natal male), HSTS 7 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 2 fun -  (6 children)

You are arguing right above this comment that some amount of people have naturally occurring femininity or masculinity. It’s a gender essentialist position.

[–]SnowAssMan 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Do you really think it's impossible for someone to have a natural affinity for something, despite it being a construct? Just because the notion that 50% of the population likes make-up innately is not correct doesn't mean the true answer must be 0%. How is it essentialist to suggest that a fraction of the population, regardless of sex, just so happens to naturally possess the traits that our culture has called 'femininity' & arbitrarily decided that it's only appropriate for women – all women? Just look up a list of feminine traits. It's entirely possible that out of billions of people hundreds of thousands of them just so happen to possess those traits naturally.

Either substantiate or take back your accusation pls.

[–]peakingatthemomentTranssexual (natal male), HSTS 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

I feel like you are misunderstanding me. I don’t disagree with you. Some of us are naturally very feminine or very masculine. In males, being very feminine is correlated with homosexuality. I’m just pointing out it’s an essentialist position, even if you say it doesn’t occur in most people. No reason not to be honest about that.

[–]SnowAssMan 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Exceptions exist ≠ essentialist. Plus, a huge chunk of femininity is objectification (sexual & otherwise), which is not naturally occurring in anyone.

How is any of what I'm saying contradictory, or anti-trans?

[–]grixitperson 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Disagree. If a man does something that makes it masculine. Doing something that someone else decided was feminine, does not make him feminine, it makes the other person wrong. And vice versa for women and so called masculine things. And if there are things that both men and women have been known to do, it just means those things are human.

[–]MezozoicGaygay male 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

In different cultures things that are considered "feminine" here are "masculine" there. In India men and women are wearing same cloths, only fabric is different. Asian men are "more feminine" looking by western "masculinity" standarts, and they often wearing make up as well (and just a century ago even lipstick). Skirts are popular among men in Sri Lanka and India even nowadays, in many mid-african countries men are wearing dresses and skirts. Hawaii with men's line dancing as well: https://i.imgur.com/FMNpsYH.png (those are often very hot to watch, with hot men). In some african countries in few ethnicities (don't remember how they are called) - men are wearing skirts, doing make up, to make a beauty contest, where they are showing their beauty and trying to impress not married women. On the West men doing the same would be called cross-dressers or very feminine, or laughed and bullied out for not being "manly enough".

[–]peakingatthemomentTranssexual (natal male), HSTS 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I do feel like there is some arbitrariness in masculinity or femininity and different culture see it different. People can and should be however they want of course. I don’t think there is anything that only women do or only men do (outside of actual reproduction) so everything is human I think. I have a hard time understanding how there can be nothing at all to it when some of us seem more wired towards one way than the other way and that correlates with homosexuality. Someone of us just are that way and it’s true before we have sexual feelings. That makes it where I can’t be completely blank slate about it for everyone.