GC: Why are penises, testes, etc considered strictly male organs, and vaginas, uteruses, etc strictly female organs? What's wrong with the view that women have penises, etc too and can produce sperm, or that men have vaginas, uteruses, etc too and can get pregnant?

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[–]BubblyBrush[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

This is really detailed and I like the article. Are there any articles like this where evolutionary biologists oppose the idea of transplanting penises to females and explain why transplanting a penis to a female would never work and is impossible too? Thank you in advance.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

https://splinternews.com/doctors-can-now-transplant-penises-what-does-this-mean-1793856833

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

Even if we can successfully transplant female or male sex organs onto a member of the opposite sex, it is likely that their body will reject it (this happens with organ transplants of any kind, your body is more likely to reject an organ from a donor of the opposite sex, I think there’s even issues with males receiving blood from a female who’s been pregnant before). But also- if it were successfully down somehow, it wouldn’t be their dna. It would be an extreme form of surrogacy or sperm donation (that’s the best way I can articulate lol) that comes with really scary, potentially life threatening side effects.

[–]BubblyBrush[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Thank you for the explanation, I think your own explanation in this comment is better than that second article! The article for the penis transplant confused me because unlike the article on uterus transplant where the author was against the uterus transplant, this one was pro-trans and wasn't against penis transplant and offered other ways those females could get the penis they want. The last line made me realize these people would go under the bus just so those females get that penis

But if an actual penis is what it will take to quiet transgender rights opponents’ standby argument that transgender men aren’t “real” men, then perhaps it’s time these opponents refocus their energies on raising money for transplant research.

I think they might even use technology. The article said they plan on funding research on 3d printing so they can replicate anatomical parts like penis, and testes, and maybe they will use it to replicate the uterus? I don't know. It's scary how far they are going with this

That’s not to say there are no alternatives in the works—albeit, the labor may not bear fruit for years, or even decades.

“For the transgender male, this is a new era giving options that allow a quality of life with a truer sense of gender and sexual identity on a psychosocial level,” Dima Elissa, CEO and founder of VisMed 3D, a Chicago-based company looking at the future of 3D-printed body parts, told me in an email. The 3D-printed anatomical parts that Elissa and her team are working on could be the more viable genital solution for transgender men in the shorter term.

With 3D printing, I believe it will be years not decades, when we will realize and replicate anatomical parts at a much reduced cost, and a more tailored personal solution."

Clearly she has a vested interest in promoting the promise of 3D printing, but Schecter did not rule out the possibility of the technology making its way to trans men before the transplants.

“The goal is to accelerate the use of 3D technology through proven standards, which don't really exist today, that would make the production of body parts, penis or otherwise, a real and affordable possibility for all,” she said.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

I feel like we may indeed get to a point where someone figures out how to replicate the appearance more effectively, I don’t really see how they could replicate the function. That’s why I sent an article that was pro trans. Even pro trans has to acknowledge that this isn’t really truly possible.

I agree it scary the lengths they will go to, and it worries me because I don’t see how they will ever fully transition someone to the opposite sex. It feels like a promise is being made or hope is being offered that will end up disappointing trans people in the end.

[–]BubblyBrush[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Understood! I can't find any articles written by someone who's against penis transplants on females and gives similar detailed arguments against the trans like the first article where the author was against the uterus transplants though, do you know of any?

And I'm scared of what they are going to do, with 3d printing they are pushing boundaries in a way that can open doors to gene editing (like they dream of editing genes so they can actually change dna and change sex from there way before embryonic development even begins) and if their dreams come true who knows what creature they will end up with in the end ... it definitely won't even be human.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I think maybe the reason the first article is so much more against those types of transplants is because of what they mentioned about harm to a fetus and the danger of creating a black market for female genitalia. Females are already abused, used, and oppressed because of our sex, this would contribute to that, potentially. Particularly since a live donor is thought to be more successful than a deceased donor. And no unborn child should be forced to start life as a validation tool/science experiment when they know going into the experiment that there’s a great risk for the fetus (as well as the male). There are ethical issues with the uterus transplant that just don’t exist for a penile one, though it could be possible that any hormones or medications could affect any sperm produced? Idk if that’s true or not, to be fair- tho they aren’t transplanting thr testes even for males getting this procedure, so maybe that’s a non issue altogether. There are potential victims (both baby and females) to the transplant for transwomen. There’s really aren’t any for the transplant for a transman. Both face risks of complications and rejection. But there aren’t any risks to other people with the penile transplant. I don’t see many articles about penis transplants (for or against), but I think there’s always more stuff about transwomen than transmen, both from gc and tras.

[–]BubblyBrush[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I think there are risks to other people when it comes to transplanted penises, because men who want transplanted uteruses plan on being "pregnant" right? Women who want transplanted penises would also want to make women "pregnant", to say to people "we are real men". If a female with a transplanted penis uses the "sperm" produced from transplanted testes to reach the "egg" from transplanted ovaries in a male, then that would mean someone else (the fetus) is being affected. I think there should be more articles like that first one, but this time arguing against penis transplants, it's sad people aren't thinking about the risky things women can do with transplanted penises :(

[–]MarkTwainiac 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

men who want transplanted uteruses plan on being "pregnant" right?

If a female with a transplanted penis uses the "sperm" produced from transplanted testes to reach the "egg" from transplanted ovaries in a male,

A lot more than the penis and testes would have to be transplanted for this to occur. Sperm is made in the testes, but for sperm to make its way from the testes through and out the penis requires the contribution of various fluids from other male organs, such as the prostate. Seminal fluid/male ejaculate contains sperm, but is much more than sperm.

Similarly, it would take more than a transplanted uterus and ovaries for a male to become pregnant. Conception of a human egg typically occurs in the Fallopian tubes, then the fertilized egg passes into the uterus.

There the fertilized egg has to become implanted in the endometrium lining the uterus to have a chance at being viable. For a pregnancy to occur, an entirely new organ - the placenta - has to grow to supply the embryo/fetus with blood and nutrients. The instructions for implantation and placenta development to occur come from having female sex chromosomes - aka the "software" - not simply from having transplanted female body parts - aka "hardware."

Beyond those events, there are many, many things that have to occur in a female body to sustain a pregnancy and grow a fetus to the point it can live outside the mother's womb. Female kidneys have been shown to function differently to male kidneys; female kidneys appear to have evolved to handle the much greater fluid volume and cleansing burden that pregnancy entails. It's unlikely that a male's kidneys could handle the extra load of a pregnancy. The differences in male and human kidney function seem to account for the fact that whilst kidney disease is more common in women than men, men die of kidney disease at much higher rates and at earlier ages than women do.

Male and female humans also have different levels of immune function, which stems from the fact that immune function is on the X chromosome - of which males have only one. By contrast, females have two X chromosomes - and when one fails, the other previously inactive or "silent" X chromosome becomes activated and kicks in. This is obviously beneficial in protecting a pregnant woman's health and the health of her embryo/fetus. No way males with their XY chromosomes could pull off such a feat.