QT: Why are people not allowed to feel disappointed when someone transitions?

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[–]CatbugMods allow rape victim blaming in this sub :) 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

So we should ignore her saying she’s proud to be a lesbian because maybe it was a lie?

Why is her identity as a man correct but her being a lesbian is wrong? What if she says she’s a lesbian again in a few years? Does that become correct again?

Her being happier as a man isn’t relevant to someone being dissapointed to lose a prominent lesbian role model.

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

It's OK to be disappointed at losing a prominent lesbian role model. However, the Ovarit comments go beyond that. They are literally guilting him for being trans and many comments are openly transphobic. There are a few threads on Ovarit about Elliot Page. Let me give examples from this thread which has 385 comments.

This is literal conversion therapy.

I hate letting this stuff get to me in real life but this fucking stings. her talking about finding her "authentic self" while rejecting her womanhood and lesbianism and sending a harmful, incorrect message to young lesbians/gnc girls that you cannot just be gnc, you must be trans or nonbinary or just other - anything other than the shame of being a lesbian woman, let alone a gender nonconforming one. and still, despite this terrible message she's sending, i feel so sorry for her too for falling victim to this homophobic, misogynistic cult.

Oh look, another Hollywood narcissist advancing their career. What a good fit for the TRA narcissists. In fact, they’re perfect for each other. How stunning and brave™️

People know a stunt when they see one.

I’m cancelling Netflix.

It's distressing that someone so talented beautiful and successful can also be so obviously a mental case.

"Hate" here being a word describing sadness from women and mostly lesbians who are shattered by her deeply misogynistic and lesbophobic move.

People are dying around the world from COVID, infection and death rates are spiking in US, but let's worry about pronouns and your gender identity. Yep, priorities.

It's interesting all the way on the way bottom a user wrote "The response to this is making me sad and another time when I can see why people assume we’re all hateful bigots. I thought we acknowledged that gender disphoria is a real disorder that sometimes requires transition as treatment while maintaining that biological sex is a constant and sex-exclusive spaces should be respected." This person got downvoted and one user even replied "Gender dysphoria my whole ass."

Dysphoria is when your brain tells you you're meant to be another sex. I am a woman who was born female. The idea of me being mail recoils me. If I was born male, I would transition. That's the downside of being trans, extreme body modification. But I understand why people do it and I would do it to if I had dysphoria. I know GC says all women feel discomfort with their body. I did too at one point but I never had dysphoria. That's something totally different and currently the best treatment is transition. But most GCs don't believe in dysphoria, or gender identity so this might be a hard thing for many to understand.

[–]CatbugMods allow rape victim blaming in this sub :) 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

We believe on dysphoria, just not that anyone else should be expected to cater to ones dysphoria.

It’s not hard to understand at all.

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

But there are MANY examples of posts where GC outright says or implies dysphoria doesn't exist.

[–]reluctant_commenter 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Just curious-- do you have any examples?

I ask because while I agree with many GC ideas and am against gender ideology, I don't participate in GC communities or describe myself as GC for the reason that they can sometimes be dismissive towards mentally ill people (among others).

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

  1. On the Elliot Page thread on Ovarit, one user said "Gender dysphoria my whole ass."

https://ovarit.com/o/GenderCritical/10255/ellen-page-comes-out-as-trans-cant-have-any-good-lesbian-rep-anymore/6975ab33-9106-42e9-873e-3fd0095de8ca#comment-6975ab33-9106-42e9-873e-3fd0095de8ca

  1. In the video Radical Feminist Reacts to "How to know if you're Non Binary", at 7:50, a trans masculine person named Moe says they were happy people weren't seeing them as a woman. Vanessa Vokey then said "What she really means here she was happy people weren't viewing her as a sexual object." Maybe they don't want to be seen as a woman due to dysphoria? The trans enby previously said they realized they were trans when being seen as a dude felt better than being seen as a woman.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rpXKTgQV7RQ

  1. The comments in that same video.

The "why?" is so important. Why would someone have gender dysphoria? It could be autism, not fitting in and wanting a community, being gender non conforming because of being gay, csa, being agp or being mentally ill.

And the idea of being cis is bizarre. What girl was comfortable with her body in puberty?

While as a fellow radical feminist I do agree with many of your points here I would not call her a "groomer" and would have a bit more of empathy toward a young woman who was groomed by genderism. She's a victim of patriarchy, how it pushes girls and women to hate ourselves, it is something to never forget when we are talking about this subject

Yup. No possible way she could actually have dysphoria

  1. There is a thread on r/FTM on Reddit called "Sex party dysphoria NSFW" where a trans man goes into a gay sex party and the other men physically recoiled from him and he had a bad experience. You can view removed comments on Reddit by replacing reddit with removeddit in the URL.

https://www.removeddit.com/r/ftm/comments/ggbus3/sex_party_dysphoria_nsfw/

Here is one comment the mods removed.

Instead of being so distraught. Why not be happy as yourself and just be a gender non-conforming woman?

Why would someone whose dysphoria is severe enough they decided to transition accept themselves as their sex assigned at birth?

  1. A user on this sub who doesn't believe I would transition if I was born male.

https://saidit.net/s/GCdebatesQT/comments/6xg9/gc_do_you_genuinely_desire_to_have_more_trans_men/qe47

So you're experiencing gender euphoria lol? I've got to be honest, I don't believe you when you say the thought of being male makes you physically recoil, or that you would transition if you were male. I've asked "cis" people if they would transition or just live with it, if they woke up one day as the opposite sex. They all said they'd make the best of it.

  1. When GC says trans men transition due to misogyny or lesbophobia, they are denying these men have dysphoria. Actual trans men said they don't like this narrative.

Feminist Trans Men & the Narrative of Internalized Misogyny

I want to die... confused, scared, am I manipulating myself?

The idea that trans men are “lesbians in denial” is demeaning and wrong

[–]reluctant_commenter 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Awesome, thank you. I am very much opposed to the transing of children and the lucrative system of transgender medicalization; however, gender dysphoria is a real issue that affects L/G/B people and it will not help anyone to dismiss its existence as simply due to "patriarchy" with no further examination.

I suspect we disagree on many other issues of the debate, but IMO, this is a pretty reasonable criticism of radfems.

[–]yousaythosethings 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

What I will say is that I believe that gender dysphoria is real and is something very commonly felt by LGB people. That being said, it has been defined in the DSM V way too broadly, which is going to draw a lot of criticism naturally. Pretty much to the point that “if gay, then dysphoric.” I also think the current state of gender activism and encourage people to a actively think about their gender and whether they’re really men or really women creates its own type of dysphoria.

I also think with Ellen Page there is evidence that gender dysphoria was not the main or only cause of her new claiming a NB/trans identity. She is most certainly having some kid of mental breakdown and seems to be surrounded by vultures who are using her and creating or contributing to dysphoria.