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[–]worried19 14 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 0 fun15 insightful - 1 fun -  (13 children)

Not QT, but it would be different if I believed it was coming from a healthy place. But looking at what's happening in society right now, I'm deeply disturbed. I have to admit I've really been struggling with this news. There's no space in society anymore for women like me. What's the point of trying to remain female? I feel like I should just give up and join them. Except I know it would be the wrong choice.

What I find more upsetting than any individual case is the way this movement insists on rewriting the past. The name Page's parents chose with love for her (and she was a her when she was a baby) is now a "deadname." It's not acceptable to use Page's original name even when talking about the time that she openly and proudly identified as a woman and a lesbian. We have to pretend that Page was always a man and never had any other name. It's just a level of insanity that I can't get behind.

I can't imagine it's healthy for trans people, either. To believe that you are "dead." That everything you were prior to yesterday is "dead." That you're literally a new person with a new sex. It's not logical. It makes zero sense. Transsexuality exists. I do believe that. However, it used to be extremely rare, especially in females, and manifested in early childhood. There is no precedent for what's happening now. I don't believe that Ellen Page as a 5 year old or a 10 year old hated her female body, that she loathed her vagina. If that was the case, there would have been some evidence of it before now.

[–]MezozoicGaygay male 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

If that was the case, there would have been some evidence of it before now.

Year ago she said she is proud to be a woman and that she want to play lesbian roles until her death. Then she changed her PR agency, and now she is he and a straight man, not a lesbian anymore. Very weird and very fast change.

To believe that you are "dead." That everything you were prior to yesterday is "dead."

It is very common practice in some protestant smaller churches. In a city I am living, around it there few villages, each have different protestant church (they are called "sects" here, tho).

People there are baptizing only around age of 25-30, sometimes later, after it, all their sins are "lifted away" (so there many criminals among youth there, as they believe they will be forgiven by God when time will come), and now they are accepted by God. They are taking new name, deadnaming considered as a sin as well, they are changing name in legal documents as well, and they are "starting completely new life", and often chosing new profession that pastor chosed for them. And gathering all together every sunday to discuss religion and praising newcommers for few months, giving them extra privileges for first time. Especially heavily it is practiced by Baptists.

So I can see such happening.

[–]worried19 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Makes sense. The religious comparison is apt. When people are born again, their old self is washed away. A lot of them consider themselves new people. They're "baby Christians," like they were reborn into Christianity.

But I think even if you asked a religious person, they'd still admit that they're not literally a new person. Just metaphorically.

[–]MezozoicGaygay male 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Some do believe they are completely new person. And in some communities, they act like "historically" they are new people too, as they "forgetting" their past and when anyone speaking about it - it is always like about some other person.

Most such religious practices by orthodox christians and atheists here are called "cults" and "sects". And I can't completely disagree.

[–]questioningtw[S] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

I agree...the way she came out was really weird too, it felt like she was guilting people to basically accept her as a man who was always a man, when that is bullshit. She has been a female actor forever, and has been an out lesbian for a long time. Before yesterday her name WAS Ellen Page, Wikipedia rewriting her bio is frankly creepy. I am sorry, but I will never ever be one of those people that thinks just saying you are a man or woman makes you one. I also hate the deadname stuff....your past you was still the past you.

[–]worried19 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

The letter was also extremely angry. There was zero talk about Page's gender journey. It seemed more like a political attack. I think Page probably saw the Keira Bell news and decided to lash out. The announcement came just an hour or two after Keira's win. I would guess Page had been planning an announcement anyway, but this was the trigger.

[–]questioningtw[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

I do wonder about that. I think this is why it rubbed me the wrong way too. If she were to be like, hey I know you know me as Ellen, but please accept that I am Elliot, I think it wouldn't have been so offputting. Instead it was almost like how dare you see me as a woman, even though you have known me all along as a woman! It is honestly creepy how everyone is not seeing how weird this is.

[–]worried19 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I think most people see. They're just scared to say anything. The majority of people still believe that biological sex is real and can't be changed by fiat.

[–]questioningtw[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

it is interesting how Reddit, Twitter and Wikipedia are just so cowed into submission.

[–]worried19 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It's by design. I'm shocked such a small minority group has so much power over the mainstream media.

[–]FlanJam 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

It's not acceptable to use Page's original name even when talking about the time that she openly and proudly identified as a woman and a lesbian.

I think the deadname thing is especially cumbersome when talking about a celebrity because their name is also their brand. People recognize the name "Ellen Page", we see that name in the credits of all their old movies. Erasing that name completely and replacing it with Elliot almost feels like rewriting history. Imo it shouldn't be a problem to use the name Ellen in proper context.

[–]worried19 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It's like George Orwell level, for real. You can't just obliterate any trace of a person who existed. Ellen Page did exist. She was once a baby girl, then a little girl, then a teenage girl, then an adult woman. Elliot Page may no longer want to be known as female, but Page's past as a female person is a undeniable fact of history. It was even captured on film.

[–]grixitperson 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

We have to pretend that Page was always a man and never had any other name. It's just a level of insanity that I can't get behind.

Then don't. And don't join in the confusion by conflating sex and gender. Page was born female, that's her sex. She can adopt whatever "gender" she likes, but that's just, as they say, "expression".

[–]worried19 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Well, I'm not going to. But I meant "we" as in society in general. We're being told that we have to do this, otherwise we're horrible bigots.