This Ethics Class Project Seems Made for this Sub - re Journalism, obligations, Trans ppl, dead names, criminals, persistent identities, etc.

submitted by divingrightintowork from self.GCdebatesQT

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[–]peakingatthemomentTranssexual (natal male), HSTS 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

Oh wow! That was a such a crazy story!

I’m not sure how instructive it is for journalists and trans people in general because this person was clearly a con-man and lying about all sorts of things. I feel like in a situation where a reporter just ran across something that outed someone who wasn’t otherwise being dishonest maybe they should talk to the person and consider their feelings about it more. That said, I feel like if you’ve lived your life as a man, I’m not sure if it’s reasonable to expect that to be just erased. I feel, if you are stealth, it’s up to you to think about that as you move through life. Like, if I ever became interesting enough to where someone wanted to research me to tell my story, I’d have to be okay with potentially being outed (even though it’s possible it wouldn’t because there isn’t so much there since it was only as a child). But, I wouldn’t make choices that would get me that level of attention because I don’t want that. I think about NikkieTutorials sometimes and I feel like getting too much attention can make it where people will want to do out you. Nikkie handled it the right way, but it’s tough to be put in that position.

[–]divingrightintowork[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

Yeah if this person had a similar history to you, it likely never would have come out that they were trans, because it just wasn't relevant to the story. As I indicated, this story would hav ebeen almost identical had they just changed their name and taken on a new non-trans identity, instead claimed they were a German engineer or something like that. The reported just would hav ebeen like "It turns out Hans Zimmergberg, German BMW CTO, was actually just John Murry, who had reinvented himself with a new life as an eccentric....." blah blah blah.

re: Nikki, weren't they like stealth to their fiancé or something?

Again I doubt you would have been "outed" as trans if this comparable story was about you.

[–]peakingatthemomentTranssexual (natal male), HSTS 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Your analogy makes sense. They were super dishonest about nearly everything.

re: Nikki, weren't they like stealth to their fiancé or something?

They were sexual active with their fiancé before they told him they were trans. That is wrong obviously, but I’m a little sympathetic because I understand how it could happen. We can be in a difficult spot with guys.

[–]divingrightintowork[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Haha I'm glad it makes sense - re: "They were sexual active with their fiancé before they told him they were trans. That is wrong obviously, but I’m a little sympathetic because I understand how it could happen. We can be in a difficult spot with guys."

I'm gonna call BS on this - what does a middle+ class 6'4"ish 250 lb-ish person have to worry about being in a room alone with anyone? Esp in the Netherlands / Western Europe - also no one "owes" anyone sex. What was pressuring Nikki to have sex with someone without saying "BTW...." ?

I some how manage to tell anyone I'm a sex worker before being intimate with them, and US sex workers have shorter life spans than Brazilian transsexuals, believe it or not (approximately 32 years of age) what's Nikki's excuse?

[–]peakingatthemomentTranssexual (natal male), HSTS 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

I agree that it's wrong there isn't an excuse for it. It's just difficult and I feel like sometimes people don't appreciate that. You have lots of experience with disclosure so I won't try to say I know better, but it can be really intimidating especially when you know they are not at all prepared for it. Maybe it's not perfectly rational, idk. I'm just not willing to say someone is automatically terrible if they don't do it when they should. I don't know all the details about Nikkie and how long their relationship went on before disclosing.

I had forgotten how big they were. My life experience is as a 5'4"ish 115ish person so that would be different Nikkie's and could affect how I see it.

[–]divingrightintowork[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I mean being rejected sucks. And while I'm not going to say I 'totally know what it's like to be a stealth utr tw,' I have had situations where people think I'm a tw, where I have to deal with a guy flipping out in a bedroom because he thinks I'm a trap and lied, etc. so like, I'm probably pretty damn close and probably have more "trans" analogous experiences where I am seen as trans, than some trans people. This also makes me think that a lot of TRAs are causing a good deal of material harm to trans people by making it out to be some sort of life threatening condition when, from what I understand once you control for poverty, class, etc. "being trans," is not generally more, and likely less, dangerous than being a woman, but I can go on twitter and see a 19 yr old trans person saying they can't get in a cab because it could be a death sentence - and I feel some of that may have trickled into your beliefs. Yes a 5'4" person will need to consider things differently than a 6'4" person. But there are very few males who are 5'4", there are a lot of women who are (it's the tall side of the average woman's height) - and even then - the average predator (hypothetically violent man) won't get into a bout with prey that can injure him - which a 5'4" man often can.

But also I don't think TWs realize the extent to which many women go to avoid male violence - you may, as a smol - but you may be attributing the threat to your transness, not to your female appearing-ness (and yes you're thoroughly emasculated, that's a thing).

ANYWAY - TLDR - good relationships require vulnerability, and to connect with people requires an amount of it, and if one isn't ready for that one should reconsider whether or not they're ready to be intimate.

[–]peakingatthemomentTranssexual (natal male), HSTS 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I feel like you are assuming I'm thinking the way I am for the wrong reasons. In regular life, I'm sure you dealt with transness more than I have for social interactions based on how you've described yourself so maybe I should just defer to you in general. I have about the least trans life a trans person can have. I feel like if my thoughts about it aren't rational sometimes its probably because I've built it up from being stealth for so long. If you go through life not talking about something, I feel like your mind gives it importance that maybe it doesn't deserve.

But also I don't think TWs realize the extent to which many women go to avoid male violence - you may, as a smol - but you may be attributing the threat to your transness, not to your female appearing-ness (and yes you're thoroughly emasculated, that's a thing).

On this, I can promise you this isn't my view. The things I've had to go through in my life because of female appearing-ness is so much more than because of transness. It isn't remotely close.

ANYWAY - TLDR - good relationships require vulnerability, and to connect with people requires an amount of it, and if one isn't ready for that one should reconsider whether or not they're ready to be intimate.

Totally agree. I've been in the position many times of not being ready to tell someone and just stopping things for that reason and they wouldn't know why. That is a better thing to do if you aren't ready, but it emotional and I can understand someone taking the easy way out (even though they shouldn't).

[–]divingrightintowork[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I mean I don't know how or why you think the way you do - you do seem to believe that "transwomen" face undue risk of threat or violence based on their being trans - but it's not entirely clear you do, that's just a tone your messages have indicating that you understand why a TW would feel like they had to lie about their sex (I also understand why they feel like they have to lie, I just think it's bunk.. Just like I understand why a man feels like he needs to kill his mistress lest his wife find out and his life "be destroyed." )

Anyway - it sounds like we're on the same page, people shouldn't hide certain stuff in certain situations, sometimes they do, there are other cases where it may not have been relevant to talk about how this apparent women lived as a man most of their life, this one it kind of was.