Is the "RudeFem" Stereotype Desirable to GC or Is It An Unfortunate Association?

submitted by LemurLemur from self.GCdebatesQT

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[–]LemurLemur[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

I see. So for you, the terse way GC people speak to one another is ideal, and you believe no one should have to accommodate anyone?

[–]jackrusselterror1 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Can you address my points? That isn’t what I said at all.

[–]LemurLemur[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

I'm not sure how to address your points other than to say "thank you for responding"? - you answered a question with your perspective, which is all I was curious about. I don't see a reason to argue with opinion - I accept that you "refuse to be quiet". I don't have any desire to tell you you can't.

you believe no one should have to accommodate anyone?

That isn’t what I said at all.

Hmm. I got that from when you said this:

Women are expected to be overly accommodating. When we refuse to be quiet, to soften our language, to put other’s feelings above our own

I guess I was just assuming you thought "refusing to be quiet" was a more desirable behavior. I guess I should ask - Are there demographics that should "speak softly", or do you feel "being accommodating" and considering other people's feelings is generally negative for discourse?

[–]jackrusselterror1 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Let me try to clarify: when I said “women are expected to be overly accommodating” I am referring to a particular toxic sexed expectation women are expected to fulfill at their own expense for the benefit of others. I am referring to a level of niceness and accommodation that is beyond what is expected of men, and at a cost to themselves. What I consider to be a toxic expectation of niceness in debate is expecting women to not address certain topics that might cause offense, expecting them to use hedging words and sacrifice clarity, expecting them to emphasize when the transwoman they are debating isn’t, and in general holding them to a higher standard than the transwoman they’re debating. One of the effects is silencing women.

More specific to this subreddit: In a debate situation that is about two very different, sincerely held beliefs, there is bound to be hurt feelings. Unfortunately that’s unable to be avoided. There are things TQ people on the original subreddit have said that have genuinely offended and horrified me, I’m sure TQ posters can say the same about GC posters. Being rude and not considering how others feel, or refusing to accommodate others, isn’t exclusively something GC feminists perpetrate and TQ posters suffer. Ultimately I don’t think I have the right to demand that certain posters shouldn’t be able to voice their opinions on this subreddit because I find some of what they say to be misogynistic, hateful, or homophobic.

[–]LemurLemur[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

What I consider to be a toxic expectation of niceness in debate is expecting women to not address certain topics that might cause offense, expecting them to use hedging words and sacrifice clarity, expecting them to emphasize when the transwoman they are debating isn’t, and in general holding them to a higher standard than the transwoman they’re debating. One of the effects is silencing women.

I would agree that expecting women to remain silent where men are not would be silencing to women.

Do you think there is a baseline of consideration that men and women should equally be expected to maintain for decorum, or would it be ideal if no one had any expectation for consideration in social situations?

[–]jackrusselterror1 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Sure, there’s a basic level of decency and civility that should be present in social situations. We don’t always achieve it.