all 30 comments

[–]grixitperson 21 insightful - 3 fun21 insightful - 2 fun22 insightful - 3 fun -  (3 children)

1) to start with, you used the term "cis". Don't call us that.

2) sex is not assigned at birth, it is observed.

3) the body you are born in is your body. you may feel bad about it, for instance, i wish my body were taller and less prone to storing fat, but that does not make it "wrong".

4) first lets not confuse gender and sex. sex is what you are, it is a property of your body. 99%+ of all humans have a body whose sex is unmistakable. With the remainder, it is usually possible to figure out. All of that is purely physical. gender used to be synonymous with sex, but now it just means some kind of psychological feeling. as for identity, it's a claim. most people don't claim their sex, they just recognize it. others make claims to about their sex that don't actually match reality. so yeah, gender identity exists, but that's on the claimant, not the rest of the world.

5) if i decline to accept your claim, it doesn't invalidate you. however, requiring me to deny reality is invalidating my common sense. and stop dragging innocent bystanders along, the lgb is not at all affected by this. as for the t, sorry, not going along with your fantasies doesn't make us phobic. but perhaps you are realityphobic.

[–]TheOnyxGoddess 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Man, you just summed up my report (which I was going to use in response to another question) in less than 300 words. Here's a point. I hope you have a youtube channel out there.

[–]grixitperson 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

thanks, but that's just distilled out of stuff i've read from others.

[–]TheOnyxGoddess 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Oh, no biggie. I still respect that anyway. I unfortunately have to submit in a report (it's a response but it might help someone argue a strong case) because I've identified a few problems when it comes to the arguments, so the summary isn't going to help. I've spent several hours on it (I had a few interruptions), and I'm braindead and I think I may have wreck my phone a bit from an OCD moment and I want to really check if my phone is damaged...

[–]SilverSlippers 16 insightful - 1 fun16 insightful - 0 fun17 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

1) My sex isn't part of my identity anymore than my hair color or height. I'm a woman because I was born female. I'm happy with my body the way it is but don't feel a need to 'perform' femininity.

I'd argue that most animals don't have a sense of "gender identity" - they certainly don't feel emotional distress at being neutered or have any attachment to their bits. My sister's cat had to have his penis amputated & urethra widened (too much scar tissue from repeated bladder crystals) and essentially his bits look like a female cat's now - and he does not care. He's just happy that he can pee without pain. Most human men would probably be upset at having their penis removed and want reconstructive surgery following amputation. Cats don't care.

  1. Sex is not assigned in the vast majority of cases, its observed. The term "assigned sex" was originally meant for intersex people who had indeterminate genitalia at birth and were surgically "made" into whatever the surgeon thought would be easiest - turns out this was a horrible idea. Nowadays more accurate medical testing can allow for the real sex to be actually determined.

  2. You are born in the body you are born in. You may not like it, but that's the way it is. I don't think there is any such thing as souls that are somehow put in your body or any of that nonsense. Your brain is part of your body and your body influences your brain. You are your body, not a separate entity.

  3. I wouldn't say that gender identity doesn't exist, its just that for many people gender is not an important part of who they are. Most people don't spend a lot of time contemplating how what they like/wear/do aligns with what they think their gender should be. I don't like the term cis because I don't identify as a woman, I am a woman because I have a female body.

[–]kwallio 15 insightful - 2 fun15 insightful - 1 fun16 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

So many of these "can you explain" and "prove me wrong" asks seem like trolling.

Someone redefined TERF as "tired of explaining reality to fuckwits" and I really feel that right now.

I feel like the word gender has become so loaded that its impossible to have a real conversation about it.

Every egg and every drop of milk came from a female animal who don't get a chance to opt out of being a production machine for those products which are inextricably tied to their femaleness. I'm not sure how that fits into gender issues but I wonder how many people who rail against the gender binary eat eggs and drink milk.

I don't see how gender identity is psychological except nowdays gender seems to be a replacement for "personality" for some people.

[–]Poppy29252 14 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 0 fun15 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Don't other animals identify as their sex assigned at birth due to lack of cognitive ability to identify as anything but their own sex?

If they lack cognitive ability to identify out of their "assigned sex," how could they still identify as their own sex?

I don't feel like I'm a woman anymore than I feel like I have green eyes or black hair. I just exist this way.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

“Gender identity is a psychological thing. Trans people say they identify as the opposite sex.”

Yet they are all incapable of explaining what this means without reducing the opposite sex (and often even their own) to stereotypes. Also, sex is not mental/psychological, so what does it matter how anyone, “cis” or trans, identifies?

Sex is not assigned. It’s observed. I’d say with intersex people it’s still not assigned, it’s determined/deduced.

I would say it’s absolutely okay to “invalidate” someone’s gender identity. Its an ideology. Nobody should be forced to adopt someone else’s ideology. It’s also an insult to my sex, an insult to males, it can’t even be explained or defined clearly, and as I said before, it’s mental and as such irrelevant when discussing who is or isn’t a woman/man. Why is gender identity the only identity we are expected to take seriously? And how strong can a trans person’s conviction be if it’s so easily invalidated?

It’s certainly not lgbtphobic, as it has nothing to do with the l, the g, or the b. And many members of the lgb don’t believe in gender identity or just don’t think it makes any real difference when it comes to sex/sexuality. And refusing to accept a concept that is unclear despite how often its trotted out is not transphobic, they just resort to claiming it is.

As for animals- they have no sense of gender, yet have a clear understanding of sex.

Last thing- why is it that people are so concerned with invalidating trans people, but nobody seems to give a fuck when the things they say are harmful, offensive, and “invalidating” to women/men? What about males who like “feminine” things or carry themselves in a “feminine” manner, or females who like “masculine” things or carry themselves in a “masculine” manner, but aren’t trans? Wouldn’t that invalidate trans people’s claims of gender identity? What would be the difference? The thing is, trans people need to offer a clear, comprehensible explanation of what gender identity actually is (and they’d need to be in agreement on that explanation) for it to be taken seriously. And so often, one trans person’s explanation contradicts another’s, so if anything, trans people are consistently invalidating each other. Is that also transphobic?

[–]CatbugMods allow rape victim blaming in this sub :) 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Don’t call me cis. I do not have a gender identity. I am aware of my sex but this is not some innate soul-like entity. I was not assigned a sex, nor is any person who was not born with ambiguous genitalia.

You are your body. If you were born into a different body you would be someone else. The separation of the body from the self is an unhealthy idea similar to the separation many anorexics experience.

Animals don’t have gender so how can a dog have a gender identity?

How is it homophobic to deny gender identity? Sexuality is not related to gender. People just are homosexual sometimes. Gender is socially constructed and enforced.

[–]BayHorseGender Critical 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

Burden of proof fallacy. You're the one claiming gender identity exists, so the burden of proof is on you to prove yourself right, not on us to prove you wrong. If I told you there's a flying teapot somewhere in deep space, I would be the one who'd have to prove that true, not you to prove that false.

[–]MezozoicGaygay male 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Wouldn't invalidating someone's gender identity be lgbtphobic?

Validating someone's gender can be lgbphobic, because concept of gender invalidates homosexuality and makes homophobia claims of the past reasonable and valid.

So invalidating someone's identity can be positive thing for LGB.

[–]strictly 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Trans people say they identify as the opposite sex.

Humans have the phychological capacity to identify as anything.

Cisgender people are people whose gender identity matches their sex assigned at birth.

Have the people you refer to as cisgender verbally confirmed to you that they see their natal sex as a gender identity?

And they say everyone's gender identity is valid

It's not uncommon to see trans people disrespecting and putting false gender identity labels upon people who don't have gender identities.

Can GC explain what is wrong with what I said above?

I don't know you particular beliefs but many genderists talk as if we, the opposing side, agree with a genderist redefintion of "man" and "woman". If a "man" is gender identity to you, then you refer to a different thing than we do with "man", the same with woman, your "woman" and our "woman" are two differnet things. With woman I mean some like Buck Angel (an adult human female), with man I mean someone like Blair White (an adult human male), it has nothing to do with gender or identity.

Why do you say sex is not assigned at birth?

Nobody assigned Caitlyn Jenner with a penis at birth, male Caitlyn Jenner already had one. Nobody assigned Caitlyn Jenner with the sperm to father 6 children, Caitlyn Jenner's male body developed that naturally.

Why do you say people can't be born in the wrong body?

What do you mean with "wrong"? Can a body be "right"? I don't think a body be either as that would assume a brainless sperm with a y or x chromome is a moral agent who can do something morally wrong/right by merging with a egg.

Can you explain why gender identity does not exist?

It clearly does exist in some people just like cat identies exist in some people.

Don't cisgender people identify as/feel like they are the sex they were assigned at birth?

Trans people is probably the group who feel like their natal sex the most as they tend to be so acutely unhappy/dysphoric about it, had trans people not felt like their natal sex they wouldn't remember to take cross-sex-hormones. Regarding adopting natal sex as a gender identity, are you asking if cisgender people are cisgender or if non-trans people are cisgender? Only the subgroup who have adopted their natal sex as a gender identity are cisgender, the rest don't have gender identities at all.

They mean a dog or a fish also have a gender identity

I disagree, I don't think a dog or a fish has a concept of what gender identity is. They might know their natal sex the way trans people know their natal sex but as trans people evidently don't see their own knowledge of natal sex as gender identity, knowledge can't count as gender identity in animals either.

Is it okay to invalidate someone's gender identity?

It's wrong to lie about people's gender identies, speaking biological truths about sex is not invalidating gender identities though. Calling Caitlyn Jenner a man/he for being male can't be invalidate Caitlyn Jenner's gender identity as man/he refer to sex, not gender identity, to invalidate Caitlyn Jenner's gender identity we would have to lie about which gender identity Caitlyn Jenner has.

[–]Omina_SentenziosaSarcastic Ovalord 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Gender identity is a psychological thing. Trans people say they identify as the opposite sex. Nonbinary people say they identify as neither boy/man nor girl/woman. Genderfluid people say they identify as both girl/woman and boy/man, one day they feel like a man and the other they feel like a woman. These groups of people feel like they are in the wrong body, and are desperate to get out of it, to change their body to look like the body they want, a man who identifies as a woman gets hormones because they are desperate, they hate that they don't have boobs, vagina, etc and they get surgery too, they feel they are in the wrong body.

Do you think it' s always right to validate a "psychological thing" and play along with whatever people claim to want/need? Do you feel the same with people who would feel better without limbs? Who cut themselves? Who want horns and scales? Who want to starve themselves? Who hear voices and think they are historical figures instead of themselves?

These come down to gender identity. A cisgender man is someone who identifies as a man and was assigned male at birth. A cisgender woman is someone who identifies as a woman and was assigned female at birth. Cisgender people are people whose gender identity matches their sex assigned at birth. While the others identify as something other than the sex that was assigned to them at birth.

This reasoning implies that sex is something real, tangible and that needs to be taken into consideration. So sure, a trans woman is a male who identifies as a woman: he is still a male, and as such, it shouldn' t be an issue to state it out loud. So why is it that sex is being replaced with gender identity as if it were a useless thing we shouldn' t talk about? Despite it being provable and observable, unlike gender identity? Why is it that sex segregated rights and spaces are being destroyed and remade as gender identity segregated?

And they say everyone's gender identity is valid and invalidating one's gender identity and discriminating against someone based on their gender identity are disrespectful and wrong.

If we have to believe what people say about gender identity, why is it that we should only believe the ones who say that they have and that it exists and not the ones who say they don' t have it and doesn' t exist?

For example, when someone invalidates a nonbinary's gender identity, they are called enbyphobic and transphobic, or lgbtphobic because they invalidated a group of people who are a part of the lgbt community.

As far as I am concerned, gender identity is a belief not dissimilar to believing we have a soul like Christians claim: am I being Christianophobic if I "invalidate" a Christian' s belief that they have a soul? If not, why not, if yes, do you think it would be right to force people to play along with that specific belief in the same way you are trying to do with gender identity?

1) Can GC explain what is wrong with what I said above? Can you break what I said down and tell me what's wrong with what I said above and why you disagree with it.

See above.

2) Why do you say sex is not assigned at birth? If sex is not assigned at birth then what is it?

It is observed.

3) Why do you say people can't be born in the wrong body?

I think that is too a "psychological thing", and as such is completely dependent on someone' s feelings. A person who feels they are in the wrong body is not really in a wrong body, they just feel like that.

That said, I don' t really care, if they feel like that they are free to do whatever they want to themselves. They are still members of their sex who are trying to hide it, not members of the other sex.

4) Can you explain why gender identity does not exist? Don't cisgender people identify as/feel like they are the sex they were assigned at birth? Don't other animals identify as their sex assigned at birth due to lack of cognitive ability to identify as anything but their own sex?

I identify as my sex in the same way I identify as having brown eyes and red hair. I am not a brown eyed redhead because I feel "right" in having those characteristics, I just have them.

Also, what is exactly gender identity? The main answers I have received trying to describe it were 1) I can' t explain it, you just feel it (in which case, it is not provable and is open to criticism as much as anything else); 2) strong dislike and hatred towards the sexed characteristics of your body (in which case, validating it would mean fueling self-hatred, not to mention, hating your dick doesn' t make you a woman, it just makes you a man who hates his dick); 3) a bunch of sex-based stereotypes like "I have always liked Barbies, make-up and pink, so I must be a girl!" (which is regressive, sexist bullshit and should be fought, not respected and worshipped); 4) the idea that one just prefers being called one label instead of the other: if that is the case, then throwing tantrums about it is ridicoulous and why is it that it' s not valid for any other category? Why is it that if I prefer being called a teenager, I am still not a teenager, but I prefer to be called mister then I am a man?

There were some tweets from way before, someone saying 'other animals have no gender identity' so this trans right activist told her "other animals do have a gender identity, due to the lack of cognitive ability to identify as anything but their own sex, other animals can only identify as their own sex while humans can identify as something other than the sex assigned at birth",

They are free to prove it, the onus is on them. Just like the onus of proving that gender identity exists is on them. Until then, I will believe that nobody has one based on my own experience and the lack of objective proofs: human beings make up bullshit every day, I don' t see why I should respect this specific bullshit and not others. If they want me to believe in it, they need to prove that it exists, and not just by saying "because I say so and you' re a nazi-bigot if you don' t play along".

Once that happens (AH!), I will be happy to say: "Oh, ok, so you are a man with the gender identity of a woman!".

Because I couldn' t give a lesser fuck about their identity when their bodies, their actions and their words are much more telling.

5) Is it okay to invalidate someone's gender identity? Wouldn't invalidating someone's gender identity be lgbtphobic? If no, can you explain why?

It' s ok in the same way saying "I don' t believe in your God" is. These people might consider it "phobic", but I consider woman/child/LGB/science/common sense-phobic their claims, so I guess we' re even.

[–]FlanJam 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Don't cisgender people identify as/feel like they are the sex they were assigned at birth?

No, I don't think they do tbh. The idea of "identifying" as a certain gender is a very western concept mainly popular among young and "woke" people (for lack of a better word). Its not really a thing in other countries.

[–]YoutiaoLover 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

1) Can GC explain what is wrong with what I said above? Can you break what I said down and tell me what's wrong with what I said above and why you disagree with it.

"Gender identity is a psychological thing." "They feel like a man and other they feel like a woman." "They feel they are in the wrong body." "[...]who identifies as a man. [...] who identifies as a woman."

Feelings, thoughts, belief and psychological experience are not reality. For example, schizophrenic people think that their hallucination is real, but, in fact, it's not real. You can believe that earth is flat, still doesn't change the fact that it isn't. Claustrophobic people experience intense fear when being in small spaces, doesn't mean small spaces dangerous. Senior citizens can feel young, doesn't change the fact that they're old. Teens feel like they know everything, doesn't mean they does. You can identify as a cat and speak in meows, still doesn't make you a cat.

You can feel and identify as whatever, but the reality won't change.

2) Why do you say sex is not assigned at birth? If sex is not assigned at birth then what is it?

As other commenters mentioned: sex is determined in conception, observed and recorded at birth. Human have only two sexes, just like other mammalians: it's either male or female. Intersex people--which can look androgynous, have vague looking genitals and/or have secondary sex traits from the other sex--are either male or female depending on factors such as SRY gene, whether they produce sperm or ova, etc.

3) Why do you say people can't be born in the wrong body?

Are short people who think being tall is nice born in the wrong body? Were men who hate their receding hairline born in the wrong body? Were people with brown hair who wishes to have jet black hair born in the wrong body? Were squinty eyed people who wishes to have big eyes born in the wrong body? Were people with egg allergy who wishes to be able to food that contains eggs born in the wrong body? Were people who have congenital disorders born in the wrong body?

To me, all the questions above has only one answer: no, they weren't not born in the wrong body. Our bodies might have traits or conditions we don't desire. To accept, cope and make the best of it is a part of life.

Also, didn't the fishes take back "born in the wrong body" slogan?

4) Can you explain why gender identity does not exist? Don't cisgender people identify as/feel like they are the sex they were assigned at birth? Don't other animals identify as their sex assigned at birth due to lack of cognitive ability to identify as anything but their own sex?

What does "gender identity" means? AFAIK it's hardboiled gender stereotypes. Trans ID-ed males "feel" like a woman because they like dresses, want boobs and loves make-up. Trans ID-ed females "feel" like a man because they love sports, hates their boobs and prefer to mow the lawn to cleaning the house. Again, feeling doesn't equal reality.

Men never experienced what it's like to be a woman in any point of their lives, women never experienced what it's like to be a man. How do you know what it feels like to be someone you don't?

For example, every single adult were a toddler at one point of life. People who remember their toddler-hood know what it feels like to be a toddler because they naturally have experienced it. And yet, no adult can ID as a toddler, tell everybody they're a toddler, go to kindergarten to study with toddlers or compete in toddler's drawing competitions without the whole world think they're perverts, crazy or mentally ill. How can self-ID-ing yourself based on "feeling like someone you have never been before" be more legit than ID-ing as a toddler?

They mean a dog or a fish also have a gender identity and they can only identify as their own sex unlike humans...

I'm an adult human female who watch boxing championships, hate dresses, wish I were an A-cup (if not downright flat), don't enjoy periods, play video games catered to males and I don't own cosmetics. I don't do things those who "feel like a woman" think women do and do things that they think women don't. I don't "feel" like a woman, I don't "believe" I'm a woman, I just am. Before you assume dogs and fish have gender identity, please analyze mine because I (and the majority of human population) seem to be a walking contradiction to gender identity theory.

5) I can't wrap my head around what trans people mean with "valid." Oxford dictionary said that valid means "(of an argument or point) having a sound basis in logic or fact; reasonable or cogent." From what I can gather, transgenderism is not logical, factual, reasonable or cogent.

What the heck with lgbtphobic lol. I don't go to church, doesn't mean I'm Christian-phobic; I don't fast during Ramadan, doesn't mean I'm Islamophobic; I don't like touching any kind of reptiles, doesn't mean I have herpetophobia; I don't sleep with lesbians, doesn't mean I hate lesbians. You're entitled to whatever you believe, you're allowed to do to yourself whatever you want to; just don't expect other people to accept your belief or think that what you do is normal. After all, other people are entitled to their own beliefs.

(PS: Found your thread on GC, copied my answers here.)

[–]yousaythosethings 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Before we answer, can you give us some information that will provide useful context to help us understand where you are coming from? First, do you mind giving some high level demographic information so we can better understand your perspective? What is your approximate age? Teenager, early 20s, late 20s, etc.? Were you born and raised in a Western/first world country? AFAB or AMAB? Do you have gender identity that is different from your sex? If so, what is it? And how did you determine what it is? When did you determine that? What is your sexual orientation? Were you raised middle class or above? Did you go to college or do you plan to? Were you raised in a particular religion and do you have one now?

I’ll give you mine: I’m an early 30s lesbian woman and college graduate. I am unambiguously female. I was born and raised in a western/first world country to an (at best) lower middle class Catholic family that had recently immigrated from a non-western politically unstable country. I have no religion now.

Second, where did this concept of “gender identity” that you have come from? And same with “genderfluid?” These are very recent and new concepts and they are generally not recognized by transsexual people who transitioned a decade ago. When I was in college, there weren’t “Gender Studies” departments. They replaced “Women’s Studies” departments and classes.

Third, can you provide a source showing the scientific basis for everyone including trans-identifying people having a gender identity and an explanation of what that means and how we determine what ours is?

[–]DistantGlimmer 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Trans people say they identify as the opposite sex

You can't "identify" as something biologically different than you are any more than it would make sense to identify as a horse or a plant. Humans cannot change sex.

Nonbinary people say they identify as neither boy/man nor girl/woman

This is all based on stereotypes and they imply the rest of us all do identify with those stereotypes which is insulting.

one day they feel like a man and the other they feel like a woman.

What is feeling like a man or a woman? One day they feel like playing with dolls or going clothes shopping and the next they want to watch football and work on their truck? Do you realize how sexist and ridiculous this all sounds?

People aren't "cisgender" we (mostly) don't identify with gender roles but have them imposed on us as children.

While the others identify as something other than the sex that was assigned to them at birth.

"Assigned sex at birth" is an intersex-term which does not apply to none intersex people. It is easily observed.

What is born in the "wrong body"? How would you even know? You have nothing to compare it to as far as actually knowing what it would feel like? The whole thing is so bizarre and pseudo-religious like you just "know" you're "in the wrong body" somehow. I really don't understand how non-mentally ill people believe this.

What does "invalidating someone's gender identity" even mean? If it's something that really exists then they should feel it very strongly and not be threatened when other people don't believe in it. But I don't see why I have to pretend to believe they are the "gender" they say they are when I am anti-gender as a whole. It is like saying I have to pray with someone and really pretend to believe their religion is true.

Now you're actually saying that other animals have gender identities? No. Other animals instinctively know what sex they are and how to mate. Animals don't have gender roles to identify with. Gender roles are a human construction.

[–]SnowAssMan 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

1) There are trans-women who say that trans-women are men – aren't their "gender identities" "invalidated" every time someone insists that "trans-womxyn are women"?

"gender identity" is indefinable, so to what are "cis" & trans people supposedly identifying?

2) Sex is only assigned in the cases of intersex infants, because their sex is ambiguous, so they put down one of the two sexes in their official documents, even though they are not sure of the sex. Trans people are not intersex, their sex is not & was never ambiguous. Trans people & "cis" people's sex is unambiguous & therefore not assigned.

3) A bit vague. No idea what "wrong body" means. Are people with body dysmorphia also in "the wrong body"?

4) As with assigned sex, gender identity, the term, does in fact exist, but with a different definition to the one you are using. Socialisation determines gender identity. We are products of our environment – this is axiomatic within the relevant scientific disciplines, like sociology, as well as concordant with every Marxist & feminist thinker.

Our upbringing is gendered & our behavioural patterns are gendered. Our parents socialised us according to our sex, not our preferred sex, which is why we behave accordingly.

Why do trans-men have to attend voice lessons? Don't the hormones do the job? No, because even our voices are gendered. Trans people have to train themselves to stop acting the way they were socialised & start emulating the opposite sex in the way they walk, talk, even gesture & they never get it 100% right, while sex-congruent behaviour is easy for them.

If trans people's gender was really incongruent with their sex they wouldn't have such a hard time trying not to sound & move like the gender they were conditioned to be.

For all their trying they still fail, seeing as, like men vs women, trans-womxyn outnumber trans-men in media, high positions & crime – how did that happen? It's clear what gender identity a trans-womxyn has & it's certainly not 'woman'.

You say "gender identity", but what you're talking about is 'self-identification with the opposite sex', or 'preferred sex'.

What you are talking about is not definable or significant or relevant. There is no justification to distinguish between men & trans-womxyn, just as there is no reason to group trans-womxyn with women.

Gender identity, the real one, the one I described, is measurable & consequential. There exists evidence that trans-women are men & yet none that suggests trans-women are women.

5) It's an ideological opinion. Not affirming someone's ideological opinion is not bigoted. Whether trans-womxyn are women or men should not affect their basic human rights, seeing as men have basic human rights. The unfounded claim that trans-womxyn are women erases women. Don't believe me? Define woman & see for yourself.

Women's sports, prisons, sexual orientations & sex-specific medicines don't exist to be validation playgrounds for trans-women. Caitlyn Jenner won gold in the men's decathlon, so their is no reason why trans-womxyn should be in women's sports.

Trans-women are not women in any other culture in the world. Maybe it's our culture that is doing it wrong.

[–]ColoredTwiceIntersex female, medical malpractice victim, lesbian 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Assigning sex at birth was a malpractice that was leading to IGM and other abuses of people with VSD. It is not practiced anymore in most countries, as most intersex conditions are studied and they are always variations of male or female development and almost always affecting only one sex.

[–]emptiedriver 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I'm just curious if reading these responses changed your opinion at all? I didn't write a response since I felt I'd be repeating a lot of stuff, but of course I could go through it again if it would be any use... So I wanted to know what you thought after reading the explanations people provided. Any further arguments from where you started? Anything making you rethink things?

[–]Omina_SentenziosaSarcastic Ovalord 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I would just be happy with seeing OP replying to some of our comments and answer the questions we have asked instead of making the thread and then mostly refuse to engage. That just sounds like they were trying to make a gotcha that didn' t really work (not an unusual attitude with TRAs).

[–]emptiedriver 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

yeah, certainly seems that way. Kinda frustrating.