Trans people/QT: What is the best or most important thing gender critical people can do to help you?

submitted by GenderbenderShe/her/hers from self.GCdebatesQT

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[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers[S] 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (11 children)

  1. I have posted that because I have seen multiple posts by GC.

  2. All we're asking you to do is to stop using trams men to insult trans women. Most of the mantra is based on gender stereotypes and can be easily disproven? Isn't GC against gender stereotypes, or natal sex stereotypes?

  3. Some people say you don't to have dysphoria to be trans. That's different from saying dysphoria doesn't exist.

  4. No one is required to justify why they feel unsafe.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

  1. How are you not getting what I’m saying? I get you say that some people think this- but if you say SOME- it means not all. Which means it’s not a gc specific stance. I don’t know how else to explain this. Like I said- you just don’t want to admit to what I’m saying. You are literally engaging with a poc gc woman who is telling you this is not true, and you just keep saying “yuh huh I’ve seen it some times”. It’s strange. No gc perosn in this sub feels that way, so why do you keep saying this is a gc thing? Tras compare being male to being a black female, do you call them out for being racist?

  2. Okay, and all gc asks of you is that you stop pretending males can be women and that they deserve access to our rights. You see how you can ask shit of people and be denied it? This is one of those things. You don’t get to police how people feel or what we think. Sorry.

  3. And as I’ve said, so many times, this also relates to number 1: IF SOME PEOPLE THINK THIS AND SOME PEOPLE DONT- IT IS NOT THE STANCE OF THE GROUP AS A WHOLE.

I honestly don’t know how else to say this simply so you understand. It’s not a complex statement, you just refuse to get it.

4./ Okay sure you don’t have to explain- but you’re in a debate sub and making some random ass statement that doesn’t make sense, if you want anyone to take you seriously, you should explain. Because saying that you’d feel unsafe because males aren’t allowed in female spaces is ludicrous to anyone reading this. If you said you’d be upset, you’d be sad, you’d be angry, I’d get it. But you telling me that men and boys- I’m sorry, males, being banned from female only spaces would make you feel unsafe and then refusing to explain why kind of makes you look like you’re full of shit and just saying things to try to defend tras/qt without bothering to make sense. Which... sounds about right for a tra so why am I surprised lol

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Question for you: if a group of 1,000 as a whole claims that 2+3=5, and they all agree, is it okay to say that the group’s consensus is that 2+3=5?

If within that same group, 21 of them believe that 1+2=7, but 979 of them believe that 1+2=3, would you focus on the 21 who think 1+2=7, and decide that that’s the group stance, or can you see that the vast majority says the answer is 3?

Further, if it’s directly split, and 500 think 1+2=7 and 500 think 1+2=3, do you lump them all together and say that the group stance is that 1+2=7? Why or why not?

u/Genderbender

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers[S] 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (8 children)

  1. I understand some GC believe this, not all. But I've never heard anyone outside of GC say this So this is a GC specific stance. Anyway, what does this have to do with you being a WOC?

  2. OK, we will stay out of your spaces. Even as a cis woman I will now exclusively use men's restrooms and locker rooms.

  3. My comment was aimed at people who believe dysphoria doesn't exist. Many do, and I can link to posts that prove it.

  4. One reason is if you don't fit someone else's idea on what it means to be a woman, you will be harassed. Look at this thread on GenCyn TERFs harass trans woman in the restroom. A user on the old GC sub started a thread about how she was in a bar bathroom and heard someone with a male voice. She questioned what is this person doing there from her stall and the person's friend was mad at her for misgendering the person. She assumed the person was male based on their voice. Celia Cruz sounds like a man, as well as a few other female singers.

I will say if I am in a public place I will be upset if a random person (except employees) questioned what am I doing in a public place. I have told people off who questioned why I'm in the men's room. It's interesting when GC says they're fine with trans men using women's facilities, yet this is what's going to happen when a passing trans men when they enter women's facilities, as long as people continue to question men in women's restrooms. Are you going to require people to show their IDs for using the bathroom?

Another thing is many women won't mind males in their restrooms and believe trans women should have the right to use the women's restroom. Truthfully, I don't care who’s in the stall next to me or who’s changing next to me, as long as they are minding their own business.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

  1. Of course you’ve only heard this from gc becsuse tras aren’t allowed to criticize trans people even when they are wrong lmao. My point about me being a poc is that we tend not to be unaware that other poc exist and they exist in all forms and types... it doesn’t matter if you’ve heard some gc people make that statement- it doesn’t mean it applies to gc, it means that individual believes it. And what they’re saying wasn’t even racist to begin with so it’s an ineffective example for you to use. There’s a comment from gc on this post saying stuff I disagree with, yet somehow we are both gc. Because we both agree on what gc people all agree on. Do you get what I’m saying?

  2. Lmao you know what? Sure. If every single tra and all transwomen stay out of female spaces, even tho nobody said female tras needed to... I won’t say that TW talk over TM. But it has to be all of them. You’re gonna arrange that?

  3. If your comment was aimed at people who do believe that, then it’s not aimed at gc and shouldn’t have been a point you even brought up as it would be irrelevant

  4. Soo... you’d feel unsafe because a female noticed a man was in the bathroom? So that’s why another female may feel unsafe?

Celia Cruz does not sound like a man. Women with deep voices don’t sound like men. The woman heard a man. She was right. How does this instill fear in females in female only spaces?

You can tell people off for questioning you using the men’s room all you want, just don’t get mad when we tell males off for being in female spaces, or you run the risk of coming off like a hypocrite.

As for transmen, a passing transman wouldn’t use the women’s room and the men’s room is not a space designated for a protected class. It’s not meant to protect males from females. A non passing transman using the women’s room is an obvious female using the women’s room. If a passing transman were to use the women’s restroom, they understand that women in the space think a man is in there, so I’m sure they’d be prepared for a reaction. Unless they are trying to prove some weird point or are completely lacking in self awareness.

We don’t need to ID people for the bathroom, we can use our eyes. An obvious male could be banned and or removed.

  1. You can give all the consent you want for yourself- you shouldn’t not be giving consent for everyone else. The female spaces are for females- so if every female in the space is fine, okay I guess. But if even one is uncomfortable, you’re saying she should feel unsafe or uncomfortable in a space meant to make her feel safe and comfortable so that someone the space wasn’t meant for can use it?

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers[S] 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (6 children)

  1. The 1st statement isn't even true. There is an article on Everyday Feminism called 5 Ways Trans People Can Support Other Trans People and that article criticizes trans people. I am a TRA, and although I mostly support the trans movement, there are things I don't like about the movement. The Civil Rights Movement in the 60s was sexist, that doesn't mean I overall can't support the movement.

  2. We'll make the men's room gender neutral and the women's room only for GC women.

  3. Many times GC has made that statement, so I brought it up. Just like there are trans people who push others to sleep with them, even though that's not the stance of the trans movement as a whole.

  4. To some people, Celia Cruz does sound like a man. Where I worked we hosted an event and played one of her songs. People had to be reminded it's a woman singing. Even when the Behr commercial played Color Is A Beautiful Thing by Nina Simone, I thought it was a man singing it until I went on the internet and looked up the song.

  5. I know I can't consent for all women but I'm a majority rules person. If there was a national poll for cis women asking if trans women or males should be allowed to use the women's bathroom, or if all restrooms should be gender neutral, and 80% said yes, I will go with the 80%. If 80% of females feel uncomfortable with trans women not being allowed in women's restrooms, I will go with the 80% and not the 20%.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

  1. Im kind of frustrated with your willful ignorance and inability to comprehend what’s being said to you- but like... we can look at your comment history and see you avoid acknowledging things we’ve pointed out and actually defend rape and incel speak so you’re lying lol

  2. You’ve said this before but have offered no way of enforcing this so the males are gonna keep invading until you figure out how to actually keep them out

  3. GC can at least acknowledge that it’s “not all trans people” and can clarify that. You on the other hand, make blanket statements putting it on all of gc which is a typical tra tactic to make gc look hateful. Same thing you tried to do about race, while ignoring your own side’s blatant racism.

  4. Celia Cruz does not look or sound like a man. Nobody would mistake her for a man. I don’t know why you cling to these poor examples other than an inability to find effective ones

  5. “I know I can’t consent for everyone but I’m going to any way”

You’re throwing out numbers that you know are way off base, as you yourself linked the actual percentages previously. But yes, you are saying you would take away safe spaces and the rights of women for 1% of males. You’re a men’s rights activist lmao. If even just 20% of women feel unsafe or uncomfortable with males in their spaces- those males shouldn’t be in those spaces. It is not a space meant for them, And the fact that you would rob the people the space was intended for of their safe space is pretty gross to me.

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers[S] 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (4 children)

  1. I do not defend rape and incel speak. I will vote for politicians that create laws that prosecute rapists and hold police accountable for how they handle rape cases. Any rapist needs to be prosecuted and serve prison time. I did say even as TRAs we can still criticize the trans movement. It has it's problems like many other movements.

  2. Simple, we turn all male's facilities into unisex facilities and built separate facilities for GC women. No one is going to go to a bathroom that is for …ahem…, TERFs. The negative will be outing yourself as GC by going into these bathrooms, but honestly it's only GC requesting sex segregated facilities. Most of us would have no problem with unisex bathrooms and locker rooms.

  3. Over half of GC made that statement and I can provide you links where GC implies dysphoria doesn't exist.

https://www.removeddit.com/r/ftm/comments/ggbus3/_/fqi9wzm/

https://ovarit.com/o/WomensLiberation/1402/can-we-please-talk-about-cardi-b-s-wap

https://saidit.net/s/GenderCritical/comments/6840/do_most_tifs_detransition/

https://saidit.net/s/GenderCritical/comments/61ia/whats_the_deal_with_tifs/njgt

I can pull up more posts if you want.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I don’t think you possess the reading comprehension skills needed to have an actual coherent conversation. You don’t seem to understand what racism or sexism or homophobia is, and you also don’t seem to understand fully what you’re backing up. We go back and forth so often and you don’t address what I say, but it’s not avoidance. It genuinely comes across as if you simply don’t understand. I don’t think it’s worth wasting my time trying to debate with you- you don’t seem to understand anything.

Either that, or you do understand but choose not to address it, but I was giving you the benefit of the doubt.

[–]CatbugMods allow rape victim blaming in this sub :) 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Quick question, do you genuinely think that you can get a majority opinion on a feminist branch or autism or anything else by reading some forum posts?

Is a forum on the internet, to you, more than just a handful of anonymous voices?

Do you truly believe that all gc people post to one or two forums?

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers[S] 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

Yes. Though I think pew research is better.

[–]CatbugMods allow rape victim blaming in this sub :) 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

You need to understand that you are working under an incorrect assumption from the start.

You are mistaking a small group of a select demographic for a majority and using this small groups opinion to speak over others. Until you manage to grasp this basic principle you need to step back and listen more, not “advocate” louder.