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[–]DistantGlimmer 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

Most people don't ridicule trans people. The main reason GC people are so hated by so many other people is because we are seen as not sympathizing sufficiently with the hardships trans people face. There's no actual evidence that increasing the visibility of trans people as trans would somehow cause a lessening of acceptance or increase in ridicule. This is just what you have decided in your mind.

I don't think hiding your biological sex is a "normal life" nor is it a moral thing to do. Given the choice, I would prefer to be female as well but it's not a choice we have. Some stuff we just have to live with and make the best of.

I don't make fun of trans people's appearances and I honestly haven't seen many GC women doing that either. Maybe the odd time if some transwoman is being completely misogynistic as kind of retaliation but the way you look is not the issue.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (7 children)

Most people don't ridicule trans people

Enough do. It doesn’t take a majority

There's no actual evidence that increasing the visibility of trans people as trans would somehow cause a lessening of acceptance or increase in ridicule.

There’s no evidence it would reduce ridicule or increase acceptance, but it guarantees that anyone with a mind to can hurt us.

I don't think hiding your biological sex is a "normal life" nor is it a moral thing to do. Given the choice, I would prefer to be female as well but it's not a choice we have. Some stuff we just have to live with and make the best of.

Out trans people don’t get to live normal lives. We are discriminated against, targeted, and marginalized. We don’t get to just be people.

I don't make fun of trans people's appearances and I honestly haven't seen many GC women doing that either.

I’m not calling you a liar but that’s very surprising because hardly a post on gc main goes by without making fun of a trans persons appearance.

[–]DistantGlimmer 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

So your solution is that we have to sacrifice any sex-based rights and distinctions and accept gender identity as true because a small minority of people might discriminate against trans women otherwise? How is that justice? Tons of different types of people can get discriminated against or marginalized for a variety of reasons. We try to protect them and work on the prejudiced attitudes against them but not at the expense of the rights of a much larger group of people.

What you say is not my experience at all with GC groups. Mostly if there is complaint it is about the specific actions of TRAs, not their looks.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

You could have sex and gender identity protections. You could build infrastructure to support trans people before trying to strip their rights and kicking them out of all safe places. You don’t have to force them into lives as pariah but that’s what your doing.

Being publicly mocked and constantly discriminated against on the vague an unproven theory that some day people will get bored and stop hurting you isn’t advancement.

I’d encourage you to watch more closely, The “it’s ma’am” jokes alone are quite tired.

[–]DistantGlimmer 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Sex based rights don't exist when males are able to enter women's safe places to protect our own safety so no we can't just have both and gender identity according to everyone I've asked is "just a feeling" impossible to define legally so a terrible thing to base rights on..

I sincerely doubt you are mocked and made fun of every day. If you live in some place where that actually happens I'm truly sorry but my experience is that trans people are far more accepted in society than they were 20 or 30 years ago.

When transwomen act like idiots in public like the "it's ma'am" person of course they are going to get jokes and memes made about them just like anyone else behaving that way would. That is not the same as mocking normal transwomen just going about their lives.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

Sex based rights don't exist when males are able to enter women's safe places to protect our own safety so no we can't just have both and gender identity according to everyone I've asked is "just a feeling" impossible to define legally so a terrible thing to base rights on

Protections for both absolutely could exist in tandem. And difficulty defining a group doesn’t mean they shouldn’t be given legal protections.

I sincerely doubt you are mocked and made fun of every day. If you live in some place where that actually happens I'm truly sorry but my experience is that trans people are far more accepted in society than they were 20 or 30 years ago.

You are entitled to your doubt but you are quite wrong. My life is a joke and people are not shy about pointing that out.

[–]DistantGlimmer 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Protections for both absolutely could exist in tandem. And difficulty defining a group doesn’t mean they shouldn’t be given legal protections.

You seem to have some sort of legal background so surely you must be aware that it's impossible to define who is trans in legal terms. Even if we limit it to people with dysphoria we need to define what dysphoria is in some sort of tangible way.

You completely glossed over my point that sex-based rights and gender identity rights cannot exist in tandem because they are fundamentally in conflict with each other.

I am sorry you face discrimination. My intention was nnot to doubt your experiences with this. I hope things improve for you in this area.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

You seem to have some sort of legal background so surely you must be aware that it's impossible to define who is trans in legal terms.

It’s actually not. You just need to decide where the legal line is. It could be identity, hormones, document change, or with diagnosed dysphoria per the DSM. Anywhere you want to put the line can be the line and draft the laws accordingly.

You completely glossed over my point that sex-based rights and gender identity rights cannot exist in tandem because they are fundamentally in conflict with each other.

They aren’t fundamentally in conflict. Protections for gender identity in say housing discrimination or job discrimiation can just be listed right alongside. When it comes to private spaces more spaces could be built. You are claiming there is a fundamental xonfolict when I don’t believe there is even though there could be (Or not) a conflict based on the current status. There needn’t be a conflict.

I am sorry you face discrimination. My intention was nnot to doubt your experiences with this. I hope things improve for you in this area.

I appreciate that.

[–]DistantGlimmer 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It could be identity, hormones, document change, or with diagnosed dysphoria per the DSM.

None of which are objective legal criteria. All rely on self-declaration to some extent and are open to abuse and dishonesty.

When it comes to private spaces more spaces could be built. You are claiming there is a fundamental xonfolict when I don’t believe there is even though there could be (Or not) a conflict based on the current status. There needn’t be a conflict.

Building more separate spaces for trans people would be a solution but that goes against gender identity which states that trans people are the gender they say they are and are entitled to those spaces. This is in conflict with sex-based rights which say spaces should be segregated based on biological sex. I don't think trans rights are necessarily in conflict with women's sex-based rights. I specifically used the term gender identity because that is where I think the conflict lies