Why this thread?

submitted by GenderbenderShe/her/hers from self.GCdebatesQT

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[–]loveSloaneDebate King 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Oh! So you’re forcing gay men to accept your concept of gay men and saying they have to deal with them?! Wow. Those men aren’t even allowed to have a space free from transmen, even though they don’t consider them men. Based on your rules?

The reason the thread was “attacked” is because many of not most of the commenters don’t see transmen as men to begin with. So you’re saying that trans people have the right to force entry wherever they see fit based on their ideology. And it’s clear from that thread and many others, including the ones in the links you asked for but never acknowledged, that the majority of gay n don’t include transmen as men or as gay men.

Yet it’s the gc feminists who don’t care about gay men, not you and the transmen infiltrating their spaces when it’s clear they aren’t wanted there by the vast majority.

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Gay trans men are gay men and have every right to participate in that sub. The thread was calling out transphobia, while acknowledging you can sleep with whoever you want and your attractions are not transphobic. If cis gay men have a problem with it, they can create a sub on saidit or start their own website like Ovarit where they can ban whoever they want. Reddit doesn't welcome transphobia.

[–]MezozoicGaygay male 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

They are not, same as masculine women are not gay men. You do realize, that you are doing and saying absolutely the same that our homophobic goverment was doing to "fix" us? Either accept that "very masculine women are men too and unlearn your genital preferences", or go in jail. Nowadays Iran goes even further and not forcing gay men into vaginal sex with "manly females" but transitioning them into transwomen, and the only alternative is death. And even their rhetorics is copy, here it is:

“The government believes that if you are a gay man your soul is that of a woman and you should change your body.”

“This is a way to fight the existence of homosexual people because you change their body and you solve the problem.”

You are using same terminology, same arguments, and trying to enforce same actions on homosexual people as the most conservative countries of the current age and as homophobic countries of the past. Same words, same actions, same rhetorics, same aquisitions. I am old enough to live through different phases of homophobia in countries with homosexuals being outlawed, and I lived in few different countries for a decent amount of time (more than 3 years in each) where homosexuals are outlawed.

Why you do not want to see this and to accept this? It is facts, it is lived experience of thousands, if not millions of homosexual people, especially ones who are living or were livign outside of some European countries and some USA states.

Why do you think that safe spaces for gay men must include not gay men? Why places like "/r/Periods" and '/r/PCOS" must include transwomen too, if they never ever can experience those and suffer from those? Why policing language and not letting people who suffering from it to be able to speak about their problems - and all because someone who can never understand or experience those problems at all?

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

They are not, same as masculine women are not gay men.

Trans men are not masculine women. They are men. I know a few women who look butch but they are clearly distinguishable from passing trans men. None of these women have beards, whereas trans men on T have beards. Also a trans man's skin and voice is that of a man. Though voice isn't necessarily an indicator of gender. Celia Cruz sounds like a man. The transman I briefly dated passed well.

You do realize, that you are doing and saying absolutely the same that our homophobic government was doing to "fix" us? Either accept that "very masculine women are men too and unlearn your genital preferences", or go in jail.

I have said many times in this thread and other threads that no one should be compelled to have sex with anyone for any reason, even if that reason is that they're trans.

[–]MezozoicGaygay male 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Have you ever seen women with PCOS? They do have beards, and they are exposed to extra testosterone sinse childhood, heavy cases are looking almost like men, unlike most transmen.

I have said many times in this thread and other threads that no one should be compelled to have sex with anyone for any reason, even if that reason is that they're trans.

Problem is the speech itself, and terminology used. Like calling it "preferences". It is same as calling your born height - preference. What that language is saying, is literally: "his height preference is being 169 cm, he should unlearn it and become 175 cm, otherwise he is bigoted".