Why this thread?

submitted by GenderbenderShe/her/hers from self.GCdebatesQT

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[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers[S] 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (30 children)

True but she has most of the external characteristics of the opposite sex.

[–]peakingatthemomentTranssexual (natal male), HSTS 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (27 children)

Secondary sex characteristics can vary a lot between individual females and males, but genitals are like the primary thing that differentiates us even before puberty. It’s silly to pretend secondary sex characteristics would matter more. If a guy has sex with someone with a penis I really feel like it can’t be straight and there’s nothing wrong with that. You shouldn’t erase homosexuality to validate trans people.

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers[S] 1 insightful - 3 fun1 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 3 fun -  (26 children)

I'm not erasing homosexuality but if he's mainly attracted to female characteristics he's straight.

[–]peakingatthemomentTranssexual (natal male), HSTS 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (25 children)

I don’t think you can be mainly attracted to female characteristics and also be attracted to the primary male sex characteristic. A penis isn’t a female characteristic.

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (24 children)

A heterosexual person is a person attracted to primarily opposite sex characteristics. A homosexual person is a person primarily same sex characteristics. A bisexual person is a person attracted to both sex characteristics. A pansexual person is a person attracted to any sex characteristics. I'm attracted to cis men and trans men who are well passing and post op. If they aren't post op I won't do anything with their genitals. Though if another woman is OK with him having a vagina, I wouldn't call her bisexual unless she dates women. She is still primarily attracted to opposite sex characteristics. The key word is primarily.

[–]peakingatthemomentTranssexual (natal male), HSTS 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (22 children)

I'm attracted to cis men and trans men who are well passing and post op. If they aren't post op I won't do anything with their genitals.

Same, I think. I can definitely find transmen attractive although even post-OP I worry that everything might not work right or be the same, but I really don’t know.

Though if another woman is OK with him having a vagina, I wouldn't call her bisexual unless she dates women.

I think this is where you get into problems. I feel like labeling a homosexual relationship as something other than homosexual is erasure. Also, LGB people should be able to have their own boundaries and not have to include opposite sex people in their communities regardless of gender identity. If people want to privately think of their relationship as something other than what it is actually, that is fine (many here would probably say I do this), but demanding inclusion from others or demanding your relationship is viewed a certain way by others is disrespectful to their boundaries.

She is still primarily attracted to opposite sex characteristics. The key word is primarily.

I don’t see how you can talk about being primarily attracted to the opposite sex and exclude genitals from that. Genitals have to be part of “primarily” to me, unless they just aren’t having sex.

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers[S] 1 insightful - 3 fun1 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 3 fun -  (21 children)

LGB people should be able to have their own boundaries and not have to include opposite sex people in their communities regardless of gender identity.

I disagree.

[–]CatbugMods allow rape victim blaming in this sub :) 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (16 children)

Can we memorialise this comment somehow? Lesbians and gay men don’t have a right to boundaries or spaces determined by them and for them.

Never seen someone make such an openly homophobic statement here before.

[–]ColoredTwiceIntersex female, medical malpractice victim, lesbian 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

There were some before too, with homophobic language of the church. I wonder why such homophobia seems okay by those people?

[–]CatbugMods allow rape victim blaming in this sub :) 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Idk how they can do it but it’s disgusting.

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers[S] 1 insightful - 3 fun1 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 3 fun -  (13 children)

Trans gay men are gay men and all gay men, cis or trans, have the right to access gay men's spaces. Full stop.

[–]CatbugMods allow rape victim blaming in this sub :) 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (12 children)

How kind of you to decide this for the gay community.

[–]peakingatthemomentTranssexual (natal male), HSTS 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

It’s just seems like you are saying gay people aren’t allowed to have boundaries which just seems very homophobic, even if it’s coming from a kind place of wanting trans people to be included.

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers[S] 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

r/askgaybros is a broad gay discussion sub, so of course trans gay men should be allowed. I do agree that some gay spaces are acceptable depending on the point of transition. For example, in this thread Sex party dysphoria NSFW, a man pre op and 2 months into transition was at a gay sex party where the men turned away from him. A user replied:

You were never meant to be there at that point in your transition.

If he were post op and passed more it would be fine for him to be there. But a broad gay discussion forum? Trans gay men at any point of transition can be there.

[–]peakingatthemomentTranssexual (natal male), HSTS 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Do you think gay men can have boundaries other places or should they always have to accept at least some female people (or lesbians and males)?

[–]worried19 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I'm attracted to cis men and trans men who are well passing and post op.

Out of curiosity, you've seen a trans man in person who has had a phalloplasty? Or naked pictures of a trans man with a phalloplasty?

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

But he’s missing the main one, female genitalia, and has the main sex characteristic of a male- male genitalia. Sexuality is not about secondary sex characteristics- it’s about primary sex characteristics, and unfortunately for your example, the trans person in question has a dick. So no, he (the TW) does not possess the sex characteristic of the opposite sex that matter when discussing sexuality.

Can you explain please, how a heterosexual man is supposed to be comfortable having sex with someone who has a penis, regardless of their other (secondary) sex characteristics? Or how a lesbian- someone definitively solely interested in female on female sex, is supposed to be comfortable sleeping with someone who has a penis? Or how a gay man (someone solely interested in male on male sex) is supposed to be comfortable sleeping with someone with a vagina? Or how a heterosexual woman (female and male sex) is supposed to be comfortable sleeping with someone with a vagina?

You kind of need to explain how humans are supposed to somehow step beyond their very sexuality, and sleep with someone who has surgically and or hormonally altered their secondary sex characteristics to closely match the opposite sex, while still possessing the primary sex characteristics of their Actual sex. Even how someone is supposed to be open to someone who has an imitation of the genitalia they are sexually interested in, particularly when that genitalia may sometimes resemble the genitalia they like, but still doesn’t function the same? I honestly think you owe the sub an explanation, since you seem to advocate conversion therapy.

Also, are you saying that a heterosexual man is simply attracted to any person who has female sex characteristics? This logic would mean that any heterosexual would be attracted to any person who has the features of the opposite sex, and any homosexual would be attracted to any person who has the features of the same sex- but that doesn’t seem to be true in reality. People have specific features that they are drawn and attracted to as well as not drawn or attracted to. someone can absolutely possess the sex characteristics you say define someone’s sexual attraction (even tho you ignore the main one lmao), and still not be attractive to another person, sometimes specifically because of other features they possess. It sounds like you don’t understand sexuality or attraction. And I think you should look into both before you debate here, or else you’re gonna have a hard time. And run the risk of sounding like you support incel speak, rape culture, and conversion therapy. All things you claimed to denounce in another post.

[–]VioletRemihomosexual female (aka - lesbian) 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

and any homosexual would be attracted to any person who has the features of the same sex

Damn, all lesbians who like butch lesbians were bisexual all along! Same with feminine gays. What a shocking reveal!