GC (but anyone can comment): Why are women more supportive of trans rights than men?

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[–]loveSloaneDebate King 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Saying that males can be lesbians is actually against the L in LGB. Since... lesbian is a term for a female exclusively sexually attracted to other females.

Pushing lesbians to sleep with transwomen who are pre op (but also honestly, post op as well) is inherently anti lesbian, since... lesbian is a term for females exclusively sexually attracted to other females (and even post op TW aren’t females)

The idea that someone who is same sex attracted is a transphobe for not including a member of the opposite sex just because they are trans in their dating pool is inherently anti-homosexuality, since... at best a trans person can maybe have genitalia intended to resemble the opposite sex’s genitalia but will never actually have it and they still haven’t changed sex. So forcing this idea that gay men or lesbian women have to open themselves up to sleeping with someone of the opposite sex is pretty much conversion therapy borrowed from back in the day “Christians”.

Saying that bisexual no longer means attracted to both sexes is inherently anti bisexual, so is the implication that I’ve seen so often that a bisexual person should be open to sleeping with any trans person, pre or post op. Maybe it’s not biphobic but it’s incel speak at it’s finest

The fact that some TW can’t accept that being in a relationship with another male (or TM with another female) means they are literally in a homosexual relationship is pretty anti homosexuality. It places value on a heterosexual relationship when there’s nothing wrong with homosexual relationships and they shouldn’t care that technically, definitively, they would be in one.

The idea that’s being spread now, that a gay woman or man should “reevaluate their (genital) preference(s)” to include trans people of the opposite sex is basically saying that sexuality is a choice, it’s a preference that can and should be unlearned. It contradicts the point we make about being born lgb, not choosing to be. It’s also coercive as fuck which is not anti lgb but is a huge problem.

Eta- obligatory not all trans people do this even tho the ones that don’t don’t do shit to stop this from being said and forced on people

[–]catoborosnonbinary 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

I am in almost total agreement with you, but I also recognise that language is descriptive and not prescriptive, and some trans women use the term lesbian to describe themselves. Some people are attracted to the feminine sex characteristics that some trans women have, and some of those people are women. This is not my experience, and for many including myself, sexual attraction is a primitive instinct tied closely to immutable biological sex. But this is not everyone's experience. It seems strange to call a trans woman attracted to women straight. I am cool with trans women describing themselves as lesbians, but trans women have precisely zero right to demand that cis lesbians find them attractive. Trancel talk of "genital preferences" is homophobia.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Thank you. I respect your opinion. My only thing is- language is descriptive, but trans people seem to want to ignore the fact that there are descriptors that don’t need to be warped for them. Lesbian describes a female attracted to other females. It has nothing to do with males. What is wrong with being bisexual? Why can’t a woman who typically dates females but who is open to sleeping with transwomen refer to herself as bisexual, even if she adds the caveat of only being attracted to transwomen and women? A trans woman attracted to women is still a straight male. Why can’t they be acknowledged?

I get why they want to use these words- I actually used to not even care that they use them, tho I thought they were using them incorrectly. My issue is forcing it. TW are being welcomed into female spaces and then dictating language usage. That’s not okay. You can consider yourself a lesbian if you’re a TW attracted to women, I can’t stop how you see yourself- you have no right to force me to accept that you’re a lesbian and certainly no right to pressure me to include you in my sexuality (I’m not a lesbian, I’m bi. I’m just saying...). The only way lesbian fits a transwoman is if you think TWAW. I don’t think that, so I don’t see how it applies to them, ever. I used to be okay with TW calling themselves women or even lesbians, but now it seems like anything you accept from them leads to more taking and more erasure so now it’s like I want to protect women and girls too much to ever be comfortable with TW calling themselves women and lesbians. It’s just one more thing to take. It’s just one more area to infiltrate and take over and warp to suit them.

[–]catoborosnonbinary 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I do not think anyone should be able to force someone else to conform to their language or worldview.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I agree.