QT oriented question but anyone can comment: How much of a choice do we have over our gender identity (assuming for the sake of argument that gender identity exists in all people)?

submitted by DistantGlimmer from self.GCdebatesQT

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[–]SnowAssMan 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (31 children)

But wouldn't that necessitate gender-euphoria in cis people? What about cis people who have dysphoria?

[–]peakingatthemomentTranssexual (natal male), HSTS 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I’m not sure if gender euphoria is necessarily something transsexuals experience. I don’t know about Masks, but I’ve never experienced that or even heard of it until I started reading Tumblr and Reddit.

[–]VioletRemihomosexual female (aka - lesbian) 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I never heard it from transsexuals either. I only heard of it from new wave transgenders, who aren't even planning on SRS. I'd say it is just fetish thing.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (27 children)

Cis is just not trans, nothing more.

[–]SnowAssMan 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

According to you trans = dysphoria, but that would make a "cis" person with dysphoria trans by that logic.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Dysphoria is necessary but not sufficient.

[–]CatbugMods allow rape victim blaming in this sub :) 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

So like, dysphoria + whatever steps of transition are available to the person?

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Basically. I don’t want to exclude people who are medically barred or say in a transphobic abusive home and waiting until it’s safe, but all the steps they can.

[–]CatbugMods allow rape victim blaming in this sub :) 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Ah yeah I getcha.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (21 children)

Only if you subscribe to that ideology. Not all of us do. Most of the GC people here don’t like being referred to as “cis”.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (20 children)

Which is why I say natal here. When I say cis it literally just means “not trans”. That’s it.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 6 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 2 fun -  (19 children)

It doesn’t literally just mean “not trans”. Why mislead when google is free and readily available?

We don’t need and most don’t use a word to describe 99% of humans. “Cis(gender)” literally just means that someone’s gender identity coincides with their sex. So it means that we believe in the same ideology as you and acknowledge gender identity as something important, relevant, and valid- or that the people who do believe those things are once again forcing us to participate in their ideology.

I acknowledge you don’t use it here, but it should be on the “misgendering” list if the sub is even and fair (a note to the mods/admins, not you)

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (18 children)

But that isn’t how it’s actually used. It’s a shoehorned dictionary definition. It’s just used to indicate not trans in plain language because referring to one group as normal and one as the deviant is othering. There’s not some implication of agreement or gender euphoria in your assigned body. It’s just used as not trans.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (17 children)

It’s literally defined as someone whose gender identity is aligned with their sex. Fact. I don’t know why you need to pretend that’s not what it means- it’s literally exactly what that means. I said nothing about gender euphoria, so it’s not relevant to what I’m talking about. Trans doesn’t mean deviant, “cis” doesn’t mean normal. I am not “cis”. I don’t identify as a woman- I am one. Because I’m female, human, and an adult. Period. You can say you use it to indicate “not trans”. But you personally have claimed that certain words carry meanings that they literally just don’t mean (example one being your disdain for the word “man” even to the point that you feel more comfortable being called a slur than a “man”), so I’m thinking I’ll take your definition of any word pertaining to sex or gender or gender identity with a grain of salt. If you want to say “not trans”, most people, the overwhelming majority of people, would actually just not use the prefix “trans”. Super simple.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (16 children)

You are reading way too much into it. There isn’t some implication you are stoked to be a woman. It just means someone isn’t trans as anyone uses it. It doesn’t imply you “share our beliefs” or whatever. Literally just the opposite of trans. The root of the term is because they needed a term for not trans and adapted cis since it is the opposite of trans.

You need a word for not trans because when we say women we mean trans and natal women. Therefore we need some designator for not trans people. Cis makes it clear we are expressly not talking about trans women and it doesn’t have the value implications or othering That “normal” “real” or even natal have.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (15 children)

I’m not reading shit into it. I’m reading the actual literal definition of the word. I didn’t say anyone was “stoked” to be a woman- I said, and I’ll put it in caps so maybe you’ll actually see my point finally: IT IMPLIES WE HAVE A GENDER IDENTITY AND ACKNOWLEDGE THST GENDER IDENTITY IS REAL AND “VALID”

I don’t need a term for not trans, most people are “not trans” like almost all people are “not trans”. YOU want to force the idea that TWAW so you force “cis” on everyone else. People don’t have to subscribe to your beliefs. Period. I am not “cis” just because you’d like to call me “cis” so that you can pretend that transwomen and “cis” women are both women. Again, I don’t need a word for not trans, I am not defined or described by what I am not- You need this word for your belief system. Stop forcing it on others. You don’t need a designator to describe what someone is not. People don’t go around wearing “not diabetic” bracelets. I don’t need to say “normal” women, all women are “normal” or none of us are, we are just all females. I don’t need to say “real” women, an adult female human is a real woman. I don’t need to say “natal women” all women are female and we are all born female so we are all natal women. You need the word “cis” to try to force validating yourself on everyone.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (14 children)

IT IMPLIES WE HAVE A GENDER IDENTITY AND ACKNOWLEDGE THST GENDER IDENTITY IS REAL AND “VALID”

It doesn’t imply you recognize anything. In any way. It might imply you have a gender identity but again that definition isn’t how the word is used. This is the plain language problem I’ve directly talked about before.

Again, I don’t need a word for not trans, I am not defined or described by what I am not- You need this word for your belief system. Stop forcing it on others. You don’t need a designator to describe what someone is not. People don’t go around wearing “not diabetic” bracelets. I don’t need to say “normal” women, all women are “normal” or none of us are, we are just all females. I don’t need to say “real” women, an adult female human is a real woman. I don’t need to say “natal women” all women are female and we are all born female so we are all natal women. You need the word “cis” to try to force validating yourself on everyone.

This is proving my point. You are so desperate for trans women to be this lesser thing that you get enraged by any implication that we aren’t lesser than you.