GC: If GC achieves it’s goal around trans issues, what happens to trans people?

submitted by peakingatthemomentTranssexual (natal male), HSTS from self.GCdebatesQT

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[–]IceColdLover 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

I can’t go into a men’s bathroom safely. That’s just the way it is. Since there aren’t a lot of neutral restrooms, yeah it kind of does.

If you go into the women's room, since women are the oppressed sex category and mixed-sex spaces effectively become "male" dominated because of the power dynamics between male and female people, you would be turning that restroom into a male restroom by default.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Except men wouldn’t go in.

[–]IceColdLover 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

You have to understand when I say "men" I mean all biological males, whether they identify as men or not. I will call you, if I see you in person by what you ask me to call you because you have had the systematic power to ensure I must otherwise my life becomes hell on earth if I don't. All males have privilege over females by virtue of being born male in a society that privileges maleness.

I am fine with calling you a transwoman, if you really do not want to be referred to as a man, since you are a transwoman, but to me you'll never be just a woman.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 3 fun1 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 3 fun -  (3 children)

We don’t have any systemic power. At best we’ve fostered enough sympathy that people feel bad enough to generally support us but it isn’t about power. Because that could change in sympathies of the people who have power.

There is nothing I consider more an insult than being called a man. I don’t mind being called trans women generally but Espescially since I don’t pass do stealth isn’t an option but I do consider myself a woman.

[–]IceColdLover 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

We don’t have any systemic power. At best we’ve fostered enough sympathy that people feel bad enough to generally support us but it isn’t about power. Because that could change in sympathies of the people who have power.

You have fostered enough sympathy amongst people with systematic power, but the impact of this is that it is being forced from the top down on everyone else. What this means is that the VAST majority of women, and men for that matter do not consider you a woman in any meaningful way but are being forced to say they do because of threat to their livelihood. I was about to ask if this makes you feel wrong in any way for suppressing others' speech and forcing them to lie but then I realized of course not.

There is nothing I consider more an insult than being called a man.

If that is the worst thing someone could call you then what you really need isn't estrogen, it is therapy. I would suspect that men have mistreated you in ways that have traumatized you and you need closure, or there is something else going on mentally. I am saying this out of compassion.

I would call you a trans woman, not a woman. If that isn't good enough for trans women in general well it's the most I am willing to bend.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 4 fun1 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 4 fun -  (1 child)

What this means is that the VAST majority of women, and men for that matter do not consider you a woman in any meaningful way but are being forced to say they do because of threat to their livelihood.

I don’t think that’s true. The majority of people are okay with us. Though a substantial minority aren’t. Hence the need for protections.

If that is the worst thing someone could call you then what you really need isn't estrogen, it is therapy.

Where do you all get the idea that we don’t get therapy before and during transition?

I would suspect that men have mistreated you in ways that have traumatized you

I mean you aren’t wrong but that’s not surprising. Because men are as a group evil. There’s a reason I can never be comfortable alone with a cis man.

I don’t mind being called a trans woman as long as the implication isn’t that I’m a man.

[–]IceColdLover 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I don’t think that’s true. The majority of people are okay with us. Though a substantial minority aren’t. Hence the need for protections.

I am "okay" with trans women as in I respect your dignity as a human being and I would be kind to you if you are kind to me. I just don't consider you a woman.

I mean you aren’t wrong but that’s not surprising. Because men are as a group evil. There’s a reason I can never be comfortable alone with a cis man. I don’t mind being called a trans woman as long as the implication isn’t that I’m a man.

As mentioned above I am fine with acknowledging you as a third category, not a man but also not a woman. I think "trans" should be a separate category altogether, and I don't even have an issue using "she" and "her" (as long as it is not legally mandated) but I don't consider you a woman. A trans woman, yes, not a woman.