GC: If GC achieves it’s goal around trans issues, what happens to trans people?

submitted by peakingatthemomentTranssexual (natal male), HSTS from self.GCdebatesQT

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[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

Not GC obviously but let’s hit some highlights so far.

The rights of half the population matter more to me than the outcome for trans people if those rights are upheld.

You heard it here first. Trans rights don’t matter because they are a minority.

Genuinely dysphoric adults get intensive treatment to alleviate symptoms without the general public being expected to play a part in it.

I may be overreaching but this seems like transition is illegal, which is monstrous on a deep and permeating level.

Absolutely no recourse for people misgendering you, if being properly gendered is allowed at all.

Consequently, non-binary identification would no longer be recognized as valid.

I’m not even non-binary but that seems pretty awful for them.

I would absolutely rather be dead than live un the world Sloan and catbug are pushing.

Ice, glimmer, and Omina I might live but would certainly have to give up on sobriety.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 14 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 0 fun15 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

“You heard it here first. Trans rights don’t matter because they are a minority.”

Calm the fuck down. That is not what I said and if you’re gonna quote me do it under my comment instead of sneaking it in elsewhere. What my statement means is simply that transwomen should not be able to undo other people’s (women’s/female) rights. You deserve and fucking have rights- you do not deserve the “right” to step all over the women’s rights movement for your benefit. Your rights should not infringe on another group’s rights. Stop. Putting. Words. In my mouth. Seriously was hoping you’d leave that shit on reddit. But I should’ve known better.

“I may be overreaching but this seems like transition is illegal, which is monstrous on a deep and permeating level.”

You are, as usual, overreaching. This means that if you have dysphoria- you get to transition physically. Reading comprehension is truly fundamental.

“Absolutely no recourse for people misgendering you, if being properly gendered is allowed at all.”

Yeah. You don’t get to force other people to subscribe to your belief system. How horrific 🙄 why should it be okay to punish someone for not pretending a man is a woman? Why do you get to force your beliefs on everyone else? Do we not have the right to freedom of speech? Or do we, but only as long as we speak how you want? Who the hell are you to demand that?

“I’m not even non-binary but that seems pretty awful for them.”

Every single “non-binary” person has a sex. They’d be okay. And if not, they need help.

“I would absolutely rather be dead than live un the world Sloan and catbug are pushing.”

A world that recognizes reality, allows females to have equal rights, and doesn’t force others to conform to a specific way of thinking? How awful.

“Ice, glimmer, and Omina I might live but would certainly have to give up on sobriety”

If this is your thinking sober, please don’t give up on it. I can’t imagine how badly you’d twist other people’s words if you weren’t thinking clearly.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (4 children)

I didn’t really to you directly because you’ve made it perfectly clear you don’t want to have a discussion just insult me. But fine.

You deserve and fucking have rights

We don’t have rights. That’s kind of the problem.

Stop. Putting. Words. In my mouth.

I literally quoted you just above the like you quoted. Then interpreted it. How else could one interpret a statement about rights for “half the population” being more important that rights of a smaller group exactly?

You are, as usual, overreaching. This means that if you have dysphoria- you get to transition physically. Reading comprehension is truly fundamental.

That’s not clear at all from what they wrote and the contrary is implied.

You don’t get to force other people to subscribe to your belief system.

We would have to be subject to constant insult and harassment with no recourse. Imagine a workplace where someone could call you the most heinous thing you could conceive of and there was absolutely nothing you could do about it.

Do we not have the right to freedom of speech?

Freedom of speech is from government action.

A world that recognizes reality, allows females to have equal rights, and doesn’t force others to conform to a specific way of thinking? How awful.

A world where I was subject to wanton discrimation, harassment, And having no recourse to stop any of it. A world where I was legally forced to call myself the most heinous thing I could be called. A world where I couldn’t go anywhere because it would be illegal to go in any public necessary space that wasn’t a deathtrap. Yeah I would rather be dead that to have to call myself a man and have to do nothing while others did not that I would see anyone because I couldn’t leave the house.

If this is your thinking sober, please don’t give up on it. I can’t imagine how badly you’d twist other people’s words if you weren’t thinking clearly.

Making fun of my sobriety is over the line.

[–]IceColdLover 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

We don’t have rights. That’s kind of the problem.

Clearly, trans people (mostly trans women but not exclusively) have had the ability to redefine gender and sex, force other people to pretend to agree with and parrot their views under the threat of unemployment and physical violence, hijack entire social and political movements such as BLM and center themselves in nearly everything, and wreak havoc against those who refuse, does this sound like something that a truly oppressed group of people could accomplish?

I literally quoted you just above the like you quoted. Then interpreted it. How else could one interpret a statement about rights for “half the population” being more important that rights of a smaller group exactly?

Right now we have the opposite: the rights of 0.6% of the population are being prioritized over 50% of the population. Why is that fair to you but not the reverse?

We would have to be subject to constant insult and harassment with no recourse. Imagine a workplace where someone could call you the most heinous thing you could conceive of and there was absolutely nothing you could do about it.

So do women every day of our lives. Find someone else to feel sorry for you because at this point it's not going to be me.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Clearly, trans people (mostly trans women but not exclusively) have had the ability to redefine gender and sex, force other people to pretend to agree with and parrot their views under the threat of unemployment and physical violence, hijack entire social and political movements such as BLM and center themselves in nearly everything, and wreak havoc against those who refuse, does this sound like something that a truly oppressed group of people could accomplish?

Social acceptance isn’t rights. I’m America the only national protection trans people have the the tenuous employment protections we got this year via Supreme Court decision.

Right now we have the opposite: the rights of 0.6% of the population are being prioritized over 50% of the population. Why is that fair to you but not the reverse?

Trans rights don’t interfere with women’s rights. So it wouldn’t be right but also the conflict is illusory.

So do women every day of our lives. Find someone else to feel sorry for you because at this point it's not going to be me.

You have recourse. That’s my point. If you are harassed at work you can sue. We couldn’t under the proposed system.

[–]IceColdLover 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Social acceptance isn’t rights. I’m America the only national protection trans people have the the tenuous employment protections we got this year via Supreme Court decision.

It's not a matter of social acceptance. Socially you're not accepted as a woman. I can promise you that what I and other GC women are saying is how the vast majority of women would feel if surveyed completely anonymously on the subject with the reassurance that whatever they said would never be held against them. Only because of the threat of unemployment, violence, rape threats and death threats are people "accepting" you as a woman, which is not acceptance but coercion.

Trans rights don’t interfere with women’s rights. So it wouldn’t be right but also the conflict is illusory.

This is not true. When women are forced to not use certain words and phrases because it offends trans sensibilities, that is an infringement on our rights. When women have to jump through hoops to challenge predatory males' presence in our spaces (and I do not mean most trans women) that is an infringement on our rights. When women are being pushed out of the spaces we created for our own protection by males who identify as women, that is an infringement on our rights.

You have recourse. That’s my point. If you are harassed at work you can sue. We couldn’t under the proposed system.

If I was harassed at work by a trans woman and I reported it, I would likely be accused of being transphobic because I am seen as lower on the oppression totem pole.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It's not a matter of social acceptance. Socially you're not accepted as a woman. I can promise you that what I and other GC women are saying is how the vast majority of women would feel if surveyed completely anonymously on the subject with the reassurance that whatever they said would never be held against them.

I think you are wrong. And if I agreed with you I would definitely have offed myself rather than transition.

This is not true. When women are forced to not use certain words and phrases because it offends trans sensibilities, that is an infringement on our rights. When women have to jump through hoops to challenge predatory males' presence in our spaces (and I do not mean most trans women) that is an infringement on our rights. When women are being pushed out of the spaces we created for our own protection by males who identify as women, that is an infringement on our rights.

I’m talking about legal rights.

If I was harassed at work by a trans woman and I reported it, I would likely be accused of being transphobic because I am seen as lower on the oppression totem pole.

Again I’m talking about legal rights. Whether someone thinks you are being a bully doesn’t mean you still can’t sue over harassment.