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[–]worried19[S] 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I think I mostly understand the trans perspective, but more from the natal female side of things. It's easy for me to see how female people would not want to be female. The trans natal male point of view is not one that I can relate to emotionally, but I understand they feel the same way in the opposite direction.

On the whole, I don't view trans people as fundamentally different from myself. I'm someone who has been highly GNC since earliest childhood, so I get what it's like to have stress and turmoil over gender. I understand wanting to be dead rather than grow up to be an adult of your birth sex. I don't feel "cis" or "like a woman" (not that anyone does), so I can understand most of what trans men experience, minus the debilitating physical dysphoria.

GNC people and trans people are, to me, part of the same small population. We have things in common. We shouldn't have to be enemies. We should be protected under the same laws. If it's illegal to fire a trans man for masculine presentation, it should be illegal to fire a non-trans butch woman for the same. We should be protected under the same non-discrimination policies for employment, housing, public accommodation, etc.

[–]MezozoicGaygay male 13 insightful - 4 fun13 insightful - 3 fun14 insightful - 4 fun -  (1 child)

It's easy for me to see how female people would not want to be female

Somewhere on GC sub was a joke about "Main difference between transwoman and woman is that woman does not want to be a woman in this society". And as far as I know, it is not really a joke.

[–]les4les 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Was just about to quote that exact line. I guess that not understanding gender or what it actually means would theoretically disqualify me from the debate, but when I've expressed that view to my trans or nonbinary friends, they've... generally also said "yes, gender is confusing" and "that's totally valid" and "me either" lmao, so I feel like in this situation it's unreasonable to expect people to exclude themselves from this discussion just because their inability to comprehend gender led them to decide it's fake in a way other than identifying outside the binary.

Also, haha, women are the original oppressed "gender." If we don't have a say, who the hell does?