Both: Do you think social class is a factor when it comes to the types of people who transition?

submitted by worried19 from self.GCdebatesQT

What impact do you think social class has on the types and numbers of people who are currently transitioning?

I was thinking of this not so much in terms of classic old-school transsexuals, because I think their population is fairly stable worldwide, but this new crop of younger transitioners. The vast majority of them appear to be middle to upper middle class, mostly white, and mostly from North America or Western Europe. Especially those who are adopting non-binary identities or are attracted to the opposite natal sex. I feel like this is a population only seen in particular demographics.

What are your thoughts on this? Is there evidence that large numbers of poor or working-class children and teenagers are transitioning? Or children or non-homosexual teenagers from the developing world?

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[–]MezozoicGaygay male 11 insightful - 4 fun11 insightful - 3 fun12 insightful - 4 fun -  (1 child)

For oldschool transsexuals it wasn't, and some were collecting money half of their life to transition. And they could be even from countries where they can endanger their life by transitioning.

Current generation are mostly consisting from 3 groups of people. First is men in middle or high middle class people, and mostly people who are already living well. They are almost always from countries which have good protections for women, so it is very safe transitions. Second is women, who are mostly teens and young adults - same demographics that is non-conforming and very sensitive, previously those women would be goths or emo. And because current advertisement of trans clinics is saying that "there no side effects and it is completely reversable" - women who are not happy with what society expects from women to be are deciding instead of fighting society to opt out of being a woman. And last one is some percent of transitioned people are men who are into yuri and futanari hentai, and women who are into gay porn or yaoi hentai.

And that is majority of current population. In UK few years ago there were 4900 transsexuals, and just in few years there are around 500 thousands transgenders estimated.

[–]worried19[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

That's my impression, too. There is an old-school transsexual population in most places worldwide. Whether they're allowed to be a "third sex" or just live as the opposite sex, this is found in many cultures. These are the male GNC children who could not conform from their earliest years.

The other groups seem much newer and more concentrated in certain countries and certain social classes.

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 3 fun -  (22 children)

Of course. The waiting list for the NHS is years even before first screening appointment and in America it’s out of pocket for most people.

Social class is a huge barrier which is deeply unfortunate since it’s necessary medical care.

[–]worried19[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (19 children)

I think you missed the point of my question. I didn't mean pursuing medical treatment. I meant does social class influence the tendency of young people to identify as trans at all?

It seems to me that even the decision to identify as trans is related to being born into the middle or upper-middle class white Western world. Impoverished kids in the developing world, working class and poor kids in the inner city, I haven't seen tons of news stories about kids from those environments ending up calling themselves trans.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (18 children)

I meant does social class influence the tendency of young people to identify as trans at all?

Minimally. Exposure to other trans people making it seem possible will help people along so extreme poverty or isolation might have some effect on someone figuring out a label or moving past denial but only a tiny number would hit that poverty threshold.

It seems to me that even the decision to identify as trans is related to being born into the middle or upper-middle class white Western world.

My parents were quite poor when I was young. When I was a kid we were in an apartment with a total of 8 people to pool incomes to afford it.

[–]worried19[S] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (17 children)

Yes, but I'm not asking about those who are more the classic old-school transsexuals, which I assume you are. They can and do come from impoverished backgrounds. I think their population is fairly stable. You would find very poor teens, who were same-sex attracted natal males, living in impoverished environments worldwide, even back in the 80s and 90s.

I'm talking about the newest crop of teenagers and kids. Specifically, non-homosexual teens in poor communities or the non-Western world. And kids younger than puberty in any non-middle class environment.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (16 children)

I mean I can’t speak to anyone else’s subjective experience but you can’t make someone else go doesn’t want to transition magically want to.

[–]worried19[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (15 children)

Of course they want to, but the question is why. I have my theories, and social class is part of that.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (14 children)

I may be some small percentage but I think you are born trans or not. You can’t be convinced to hate your genitals or that it’s a great idea to give up your friends, family, career, and any money you do have to remake your body. You want it or not and I don’t think social class can make you want to.

[–]worried19[S] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (13 children)

But a lot of these kids don't hate their genitals.

You're think of sex and genital dysphoria, which is not even on the menu as needed to be non-binary or trans-identified for kids or teens. I don't think middle class natal female teenagers who don't hate their vaginas or breasts and who are attracted to boys were legitimately born trans. This is not a population seen in other demographics. Not historically, and not in most parts of the non-Western world.

[–]MezozoicGaygay male 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Especially ones who want to still have their genitals and calling transgays and transbians, and want sex with gay men, while still having vaginas, or lesbian women, while still having penises.

[–]worried19[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Exactly. They don't have genital dysphoria if they enjoy their genitals and look forward to using them during sex. It boggles my mind that a natal female person can be attracted to men and want men to penetrate her vagina, yet consider herself a "gay trans man." Like how? That's heterosexuality. What about their sex do they hate if they enjoy their female body parts?

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

You are making an awful Lot of jumps there.

[–]worried19[S] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

I don't think I am. Where are the poor elementary school kids in the inner city who are being transitioned?

What about non-homosexual natal female teenagers in places like Africa, India, China, and Japan?

I keep reading stories about trans boys who are pre-puberty, almost all white, all middle to upper middle class, all in the Western world, with no hint that these children feel even the slightest discomfort with their vaginas.

[–]yishengqingwa666 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

No, it isn't.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

No it isn’t what? Social class isn’t a barrier or transition isn’t necessary medical care? Either way you are completely wrong.

[–]luckystar 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I don't have enough hard data to really comment on this, but the AGP types seem to be exclusively white which I find interesting.

[–]zephyranthes 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Online, it certainly seems so. Specifically, it seems that people who transition do not care about finances: they're either set for life, or on welfare in a first-world country, or adolescents provided for by their parents.