all 38 comments

[–]divingrightintowork[S] 14 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 0 fun15 insightful - 1 fun -  (15 children)

My very lazy answer is "The husband should have stuffed it / gotten therapy on how to manage his desires and held off on doing pretty much shit other than being a killer fucking dad who centered his kids and their development first and foremost until they all moved out / launched / were at least 18-21ish, and then started exploring this shit if he was still interested."

OR - Failing that - an at-fault divorce (his fault for getting married without having figured his shit out) that is fairly generous to the mother and gives her custody and direction of the children's future / provides child support and alimony for them to continue living without him, and he explores that "On his own," and basically continues to be the father the kids have known and been around when he is visiting him, with him, etc. while he does the things that are important to him on his time - and again, only starts "coming out" when they're around after they're 18/21ish.

[–]worried19 8 insightful - 2 fun8 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

FYI, your link is going to an article about the Massachusetts bail fund. I don't think that's the story in question.

[–]divingrightintowork[S] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

[–]peakingatthemomentTranssexual (natal male), HSTS 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I like your answers.

[–]divingrightintowork[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

[–]burninglikeabridge 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (7 children)

I dont think you'd say the same thing if it was the mother transitioning instead of the father.

[–]peakingatthemomentTranssexual (natal male), HSTS 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

I'm not sure if this is wrong of me to think, but I'd be really surprised if there are many similar stories of mother's behaving this way.

[–]worried19 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Autoandrophilia seems to be a rare motivation for an older adult woman in a straight relationship to transition. I'm pretty sure most late transitioners who are mothers are HSTS.

Then again, there was this video with a few mothers dragging their kids into their transition and identity issues:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTP4okl0gUk

[–]peakingatthemomentTranssexual (natal male), HSTS 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

You are probably right. I feel like most FTMs in general are HSTS (like nearly all ones I’ve met irl have been). The ones who aren’t are mostly part of this younger crowd it seems like.

[–]divingrightintowork[S] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I don't think there's many similar stories of mother's behaving this way. I've heard of maybe one, that wasn't anywhere near as bad, but was still kind of messed up.

She ran off while pregnant, transition, told the child the other parent died or something like that, and then she died, and the father can't get in touch with his child? Something weird like that, it's in Canada.

I have weird feelings, because the father never actually met his child, and there are tons of men who don't even know their fathers, so it's specious that he has a real feeling of connection to this human he never met, But rather a story he tells himself of connection... but also it's a lot of super messed up on the mom's part too.

[–]peakingatthemomentTranssexual (natal male), HSTS 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

That’s awful in its own way, but yeah, a bit different. What did she die from?

[–]divingrightintowork[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

No idea - I can't find the original source / story. Hrm - i can't find it. You could probably snope around and find it from what I shared.

[–]divingrightintowork[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I made a mistake and link the wrong article here's the right article

https://www.massresistance.org/docs/gen4/20c/How-the-transgender-movt-destroyed-a-family/index.html

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

That’s how you end up with someone eating a bullet.

Being a father is a horrifically masculine ideal probably Daily making things worse. People who want to be dead don’t make for healthy parents.

Having a mental illness isn’t something blameworthy either so am at fault divorce is pretty monstrous.

And enforcing masculinity (despite being horrific on every level) for visits is just going to make him not want to see the kids. At best you are encouraging the kids lose a parent through distance if not through suicide.

Let her transition. Get a therapist for the kids to help them understand that some people need to do things for themselves and come to peace with that. Determine custody etc. as you wound in any other divorce if they don’t want to cohabitate or stay in a relationship. It doesn’t have to be a thing that you crucify someone for.

[–]divingrightintowork[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I made a mistake and link the wrong article here's the right article

https://www.massresistance.org/docs/gen4/20c/How-the-transgender-movt-destroyed-a-family/index.html

[–]worried19 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

I read the linked article. Bear in mind this is a right-wing site that is also against gay people and we are only getting one side of the story, but if what the ex-wife says is true, her ex does not seem to be a fit parent. I'd say completely aside from any gender issues. She mentions her ex and her ex's new partner threatening the children and exposing them to inappropriate sexual materials.

I'd say someone transitioning for fetishistic reasons should be handled differently from someone transitioning due to actual severe dysphoria. This woman's ex definitely appears to be in the former category. The best interest of the children should be paramount. If someone is bound and determined to transition, then obviously no one can stop them, but there should be firm measures in place to ensure that both parents' homes are stable environments for the kids. This situation is compounded by the fact that the woman is a conservative Christian and the ex is not, so therefore the kids are also getting mixed ideological messages.

[–]divingrightintowork[S] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

It sounds like your sum judgments are not too different from my own on how this should have been handled.

It definitely steps on a lot of really interesting ideological lines, I also noted that it looks like the children were raised conservative Christian, and I'm not sure exactly where I fall on how ethical it is to raise kids with religion at all... My general sentiment is it isn't, tho we live in a multicultural society so they'll generally figure it out at some point whether or not it works for them (And it really does work for a lot of people!). That said I think stopping parents from raising their children with a religion is probably even worse, so ice skew towards the children finishing up their religious acculturation, so long as the mom doesn't really force them to do anything they don't want to do.

And yeah, well the mom is clearly biased, it also sounds like the man is an unabashed AGP. That said, 15 years into a marriage, he definitely could have held out a little longer. I also think the wife's statements that she is not a lesbian are completely valid within gender ideology, and if he decides being a woman is more important than his marriage, again that's on him, it's called dead naming, and people say marriage is until death do we park, she married a John not a Jane. I have no issue using their own melodramatic tendencies against them so to speak.

[–]worried19 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Pretty much everyone where I grew up was raised conservative Christian. I don't think it's necessarily bad. It can be, but it depends on how seriously the parents take it. This mom seems super religious. That's a stressful environment, if one parent is "saved" and tells the kids the other parent is going to hell and the other parent's church is evil, and that kind of stuff. It's not good for children to be caught in the middle.

Sounds like the kids were pretty young. At one point, the mom mentioned the daughter being 5. There are guides for transgender parents on how best to handle transition with kids. It doesn't involve threatening kids or asking them to stop calling the parent the name they've known them by. I just don't think this dad was cut out to be a parent at all, let alone to try to co-parent in a delicate situation like this. That said, what can be done after the fact? Not much. I feel sorry for the kids. Honestly, both their parents suck. Their mom is an anti-gay campaigner, after all.

[–]luckystar 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I agree with all of this

[–]luckystar 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (15 children)

(GC leaning) I wrote a longer comment but it was eaten. Anyway my quick thoughts:

  1. The ultra conservative Christian culture is not helping b/c this man clearly knew he had this fetish or "trans identity" all along but tried to hide it and be a normal husband and father. We'd be better off promoting letting people live how they want. As long as they don't violate the rights of others (eg: men with fetishes claiming to be real women and trying to access women's spaces), then there's nothing wrong with having a cross dressing fetish. A more accepting society would make this scenario less likely.

  2. Lots of people outside GC spaces say the whole AGP thing is made up, but there are just way too many cases like this for me to believe AGP isn't real.

  3. When you have kids, they come first. Always. Not clear to me how transitioning would benefit the kids -- might be better for dad's mental health but social, financial, emotional costs on all involved are high.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (14 children)

You get that parents having bad mental health cause problems for kids right?

[–]luckystar 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (13 children)

Yes, see my point 3. It ultimately comes down to a value judgment. I think the benefit of having a happier dad(or mom as it were) is probably not outweighed by the financial, social, and emotional costs-- in this case for instance, a divorce, and single parent families are known to correlate with worse life outcomes for the kids. Transition can be incredibly expensive and time intensive. Social cost - kids getting bullied at school because "your dad wears dresses". Family ties weakening or breaking. (Note that I'm not saying judgmental family/peers is a good thing, but it is a reality that has to be considered, especially in the conservative South). People make great sacrifices for their children all the time, whether or not you think that's the right choice is just a matter of opinion.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (12 children)

And finding your parents body in the bathroom is a pretty big negative. Or a depression spiral from untreated dysphoria causing you to become extremely distant and lose that precious, precious job.

You can’t be an effective parent if you don’t take care of yourself.

[–]luckystar 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (11 children)

How did they make it this far without offing themselves you think?

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

Exhausting coping skills? The fact that trauma is cumulative? The fact that aging is a noted trigger for dysphoria since the idea of aging of dying as your birth gender is often a point of stress idea? Unhealthy coping mechanisms like self medication that would also impair their ability to parent? Forcing themself to have a family in the hopes that sufficient gender conformity would let them wade it out only to realize they aren’t that strong?

[–]luckystar 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

Point is, whatever they did to make it this far, they can continue further for the sake of their children's well being. I don't take kindly to the suicide threats -- that's just manipulative emotional blackmail. When anyone commits suicide, the family and friends are told "There was nothing you could have done, they were battling their own demons". If we don't blame the family for other kinds of suicides then we can't blame the family for gender/trans related suicides either.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

Your refusal to understand cumulative mental stress is bordering on simple denial.

That’s not a threat. People who can’t get treatment for gender dysphoria often attempt suicide. That’s just a fact. And in these cases there is “something they could have done”. Gotten the trans person the help they needed.

You clearly have no respect for mental health needs.

[–]luckystar 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

Suicide is never the fault of others. There are other ways to manage mental health problems besides immediately throwing all one's money and attention into pursuing the unachievable ideal of a female body. Maybe transition is a preferable treatment for some, but not at the sake of one's children.

I don't know how to explain to you that children are more important than the parents. This might also be a cultural divide or something, I know American culture often values the individual over the family unit. I will always put my family first, no matter the challenges. Please don't assume I'm not familiar with mental health needs either.

It is interesting how it's all these male born people abandoning their children to focus on their own needs, and yet they want us to believe they're women. Women would be so harshly judged by society for doing the same thing. It seems very rare that a middle aged mom comes out as a man. Any ideas why that might be?

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

Parents with untreated mental illnesses are bad parents. Transition is the only effective treatment for dysphoria.

And I don’t know how to explain to you that human existence is defined by more than slavish devotion to your children. Parents don’t stop being human because they procreate. I have a lot of resentment to my parents but I didn’t expect them to martyr themselves for me.

It seems very rare that a middle aged mom comes out as a man. Any ideas why that might be?

They pass better and masculinity expiramentation is accepted so there’s less stigma. They don’t push themselves to the brink of suicide before transition in the hopes of avoiding it like many trans women do.

[–]pinkpaperplates 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I went to this therapist with him and she advanced the idea that he could go have nights and weekends with other cross-dressing men without me even knowing about it, and that he could keep a P.O. box where he could get invitations to such events as well as catalogs and women's magazines.

What kind of licensed therapist does this?

He attained legal counsel from some LGBT activist lawyers that represent transgender clients.

We settled, but not before 100K in attorney fees were spent on my side due to the numerous motions by his activist attorney. That is their M.O. – to bury people in motions and drain them financially.

Sounds familiar. Deja vu or is this a reoccurring theme?

She’s a homophobic Christian conservative and I understand that to them it’s all evil but it still bothers me the way she keeps saying LGBT when she’s only talking about the T, there really needs to be a distinction between LGB and T.

My ex cousin-in-law was a cross dresser when I was little, they divorced and he transitioned after all three kids were in college. No drama, he was always a stable person (from my childhood point of view - I also live on the east coast and they’re on the west so I only saw them once a year) and is remarried to a woman.

[–]divingrightintowork[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I'm guessing the legal counsels advertised their selves as "LGBT Friendly," though also if you indicate you're "LGB" at this point you're just dog whistling that trans people "Don't exist" or whatever their current melodrama is...

[–]divingrightintowork[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

BIG OOPS

Wrong article link

I made a mistake and link the wrong article here's the right article

https://www.massresistance.org/docs/gen4/20c/How-the-transgender-movt-destroyed-a-family/index.html