Both: Is socialization always binary?

burninglikeabridge · 2020-08-05T05:10:29+00:00

I think there is a difference to a certain extent, at least in some families.

I also don't think socialization ever ends, its just less "girls/boys dont do that, they do this" and more subtle.

Rae · 2020-08-05T05:15:53+00:00

I don't think there's any way for socialization to be "binary". Socialization always continues; it's a process. I think of it as a person's collective individual and general/cultural social experiences. Anything from interpersonal relationships, brief social exchanges, movies, gender norms, advertisements, work, school, etc. It also has to do with how you are treated by who and why. It's highly complex and not the same for anybody individually. However, some groups of people are socialized similarly in some areas due to their sex, sexual orientation, race, color, nationality, disability status, mental health, income level, etc.

GC and QT refer to socialization like it's in the past because most of the time they are having discussions or debates as to whether a person can be a woman even though they did not experience the same socialization that most girls go through.

peakingatthemoment · 2020-08-05T14:06:03+00:00

My reason for this question is because I feel like GC treats it like a sex-based binary sometimes. Like meaning that females always receive the same socialization as other females (same for males) regardless of how they were growing up. I understand why socialization is important often times to explain why trans people often still act in ways associated with their natal sex, but sometimes it feels like socialization is just standing in for sex stereotypes at times, which doesn’t feel very gender critical. That’s totally not meant to diminish sex-based socialization, but I feel like it needs to be discussed with more nuance.

DistantGlimmer · 2020-08-05T14:18:56+00:00

I think parenting is a big part of it. I'd be curious if people with very conservative/homophobic parents who punish them for being GNC are more likely to think there's "something wrong with them" and eventually become trans-identified. I don't know, it's something I've heard a fair number of trans people say about their experiences. I guess I'm lucky that my family was always supportive of this kind of thing with me so even getting bullied by kids about it I never completely internalized the idea that there was something wrong with being effeminate.

It definitely is not something that stops either. I know I still feel uncomfortable in a lot of all-male groups because the socialization is very much on display often in those groups and you feel very pressured to go along with it or at least keep quiet about it but obviously it is easier to resist as an adult than a child.

luckystar · 2020-08-05T18:31:29+00:00

RE: Bonus question.
Socialization continues for all of one's life, but the elasticity of the brain goes down. That's why we see boomers/elders that still use racial slurs and such, their brains are literally resisting new information. Conversely, kids are sponges so they change very rapidly. Trends always come from youth and filter down to older people -- like how Facebook used to be associated with kids but now the kids are all on TikTok and Facebook is associated with older people. Slang too tends to originate with young people, eg there was once a time where adding "like" between words was a distinct marker of a "Valley girl", but now you'll hear geriatric university professors saying "like".

As to the first question I don't think I understand it. What age of "kids" are we talking about here? I didn't have any thoughts about sexuality until puberty so I don't see how I could have been treated differently for it. Is there a certain way people treat gay kids? I've never heard of that... I guess you could say some kids act "stereotypically gay" like a boy being flamboyant but I wouldn't jump to "ah, little Timmy must be gay", I'd assume that was just a personality trait. I'd only assume my son was gay if he brought home a boyfriend lol

worried19 · 2020-08-05T03:07:13+00:00

I don't think you can say there is one single socialization experience that takes place. A lot depends on age, family, community, culture, etc.

All kids are presumed straight, at least to start off, so I would suppose early socialization is fairly uniform across the board. But those of us who display strong cross-sex tendencies at a young age are probably subject to mixed socialization. I won't say that I didn't receive female socialization at all. But I think the female socialization I received was less than average. It certainly would have been different from a conforming female child because I did not have the same social experiences. I didn't spend time among groups of girls. I "passed" as a boy completely to strangers from age 5 through my early teen years.

And importantly, I was extremely male identified. I compared myself to boys and men, not women. I internalized male values for myself. I didn't have the same worries or insecurities as a girl who might have wanted to be appear attractive or pretty. There was nothing about the female experience that I strove for. There was no loyalty or sense of belonging with other girls or women, just alienation. All of my idealism was centered around men.

At what age does socialization end usually or does it keep going?

I think it continues in small ways through most of life, but the heaviest socialization takes place during your formative years, childhood and adolescence. But every new stage of life probably does bring some additional gendered expectations.

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