Both: What are your feelings on BDSM and the sex-positivity movement?

submitted by worried19 from self.GCdebatesQT

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[–]worried19[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

Do you have moral qualms about any of it?

There are people out there who sexualize extreme things like rape, slavery, and the Holocaust.

[–]Porcelain_QuetzalTabby without Ears 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Yes and no. Maybe. It's complicated. I can't say that I have no moral qualms with what most people would consider problematic like rape or setting a scene in Auschwitz. But I don't consider the act of playing out these scenes itself immoral at all. The bigger issue for me personally is when people start to boast about these scenes outside of kink places. While it's usually understood in the kink community that setting a scene during the Holocaust is mostly set dressing or the play during that scene to spark both the sub and Doms imagination, this is likely lost in more vanilla spaces and could take the focus of the actual tragedies that occurred during this time.

The reason why I don't judge people who engage in this sort of play might be, because I myself have kinks that would easily be considered immoral. Especially given my personal history my testimony on these might be used by bad actors to justify their harm of innocent people. I have seen a few people in my kinks community express the sentiment and while some shot them down immediately others weren't as quick call out their frankly horrible sentiments.

The reason I don't judge those seeking to play out their kinks is because, at least for me, my kink isn't as much a want as it is a need. It's something I'm struggling with quite often and I have done things that I am not proud of to get my fix. The only person harmed was me, just to be clear.

[–]worried19[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Do you think it says anything at all about the people who get pleasure from being the perpetrator in these scenarios?

I can't reconcile that with morality, personally. Just because there are willing victims doesn't excuse the people who happily abuse others. If I had desires like that (which I don't, thank God), I'd go to my deathbed denying them.

[–]Porcelain_QuetzalTabby without Ears 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Not really. Simply playing out these desires does not say anything about people who play them out. It's how you do it that says everything. The line between abusive asshole and caring Dom is respect for the person you play with both outside and during play. Is there any aftercare? Is he able to snap out of the scene at an instant. Is she willing to ease you into a scene if you aren't yet ready? Is she making her own lines absolutely clear? Does she negotiate the scene with you beforehand? Etc. Etc.

These things make a huge difference and say a lot about who that person is outside of play. Having a certain kink does not say more about the person than wether or not they like oral sex.

doesn't excuse the people who happily abuse others

I completely agree with the sentiment, but I fear our definition of abuse is different.

[–]worried19[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Yeah, our definition of abuse is different.

I think we're pretty much diametrically opposed on this matter. In my view, taking pleasure from hurting other people is always wrong, no matter if the victims want it. And sexualizing evil things is always evil.

[–]Porcelain_QuetzalTabby without Ears 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Why is the reenactment of evil in a safe environment evil? Does the same go for plays or movies? Or is it l just the use of an evil backdrop for sexual context that's bad? If yes why is that okay for other things, but not for sex?

I won't argue about wether or not hurting someone for pleasure is bad, because you're entitled to your own morals. I just wanted to remind you, that bdsm does not have to involve pain.

[–]worried19[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

To take pleasure from evil is evil, in my book. If a man wants to rape a woman, gets pleasure from the idea of forcing himself on a woman and the woman resisting him, takes pleasure in her pain and fear, that man is evil. I will never waver on that.

A man who plays a serial killer or a rapist in a movie is not taking sadistic pleasure in the role, one would hope. If he does, I would likewise label him evil.