I always feel fetish is a way of ending thinking about it. Well, a fetish has an origin of some type. We can still think about it while acknowledging it's a fetish.

Do you think gay people expressing gender non conformity as part of their sexuality are fetishists?

What about common female sexual fantasies? Are they fetishists?

I don’t feel like it’s entirely sexual for me. That's interesting. I was under the impression it was just something you only entertained in your erotic life. But there are aspects you enjoy that are totally non-sexual?

Well I enjoy the female aesthetic. It’s as simple as I look at female fashion and think I’d like to express that. But there are other aspects to my life that possibly are non conforming. In this way I genuinely don’t know. I never quite fit a lot of masculine territories. I was always kind of split.

But being a progressive person I accepted that “gender norms weren’t actual things.” I was always in two minds about it. I accepted masculinity and femininity were things that might be natural but really not to be taken that seriously. But then found in life they really did matter. You can’t act like they didn’t. You will be judged on it. You can’t have people making assumptions.

For example, I never got into sport, especially team sports, especially the fanatical tribal support. I enjoyed lots of Reality television.

Now I didn’t think these were particularly gender non conforming at all. Only later I realised how much I’d be judged on these things. It was too “gay.” That’s how people judge things, even people who consider themselves liberal. A gay man can do those things but straight men cannot.

I also dressed probably not conservatively enough. I had to remove that. For example something as simple as tiger pink stripe skater shoes were questioned. I assumed that was acceptable as a casual punk fashion thing. Not extreme at all, as casual as ripped jeans. Was it my crossdressing affecting my choice? Was I choosing them as a form of displacement? I don’t know, I don’t think it’s extreme. But it would be commented on. So dressing down becomes important. Maybe I’m being policed more than others because people made assumptions.

Obviously men discussing sex was an issue. Their aggressive experiences and desires weren’t something I related to. I wasn’t someone they’d share porn with, that goes on.

So it doesn’t matter what I think, why it is, I have to act on gender norms. I have to try and conform.

If it was simple as an event happened and that triggered it then it would be obvious for researchers to find and it would vary a lot more.

Well, it might not just be one event or one incident. There are many things we don't know about the human mind and how our sexualities develop. People can go through the same experiences and come out with different desires and urges.

But I just don’t see the pattern in the world. If it was entirely down to experiences the incidences would vary a lot. It would be significant. But we see the same patterns the world over.

You don’t accept a woman can naturally enjoy expressing femininity but you do enjoy expressing masculinity. I don't know if "enjoy" is the right word? It's just how I'm comfortable. I could not present feminine without wanting to kill myself. I realize that's extreme, but that's how I feel.

That does sound extreme. I think most women would find that quite alien. Even if they don’t think you don’t have the right to reject it.

But I don't take pleasure in cultivating my hair or clothes to be masculine. I just want to wear stuff that I'm comfortable in that doesn't draw undue attention to myself. I like to keep things simple.

This is the masculine as neutrality.

What about formal occasions?

Kind of a question I wonder. But seemingly I enjoy women more passionate than is assumed normal, than men like, than society deems normal. Um, like how? I guess specifics would be good.

I’m sure I’d given a description before.

“Making the moves. Tactile, sexual talk, lustful actions, sexual display, sexual fantasising, innuendo, sex game talk, dominant sexual talk.”

Pinning, forceful kissing, grabbing without asking or context.

I like to think I'm passionate in bed, but I don't think it makes me abnormal. My partner's last girlfriend was also really active in bed, so I don't think I'm abnormal in his experience either. We've talked about his previous partners. The first one was shy, so perhaps she fits more of your stereotype.

Sexually passive women are far more common.

That does not mean they are without desire. They desire that “dominant male” form. Don’t blame the messenger.

To be honest, I have no idea what a crossdresser would be like in bed and have no stereotypes in my head about it.

Ha well I’d think it wouldn’t be your thing.

Here’s a thing that’s done, putting on make up on each other. It’s intimate and sensual. Both creating visual pleasure and incense physical intimacy.

But what about sexually passive men?

Does that mean anything to you?

I like women who enjoy my femininity. It’s about matching, I want them to enjoy it. GC will take that as me imposing it. But it’s the opposite. I want honest inspired desire. In my experience it works better than way. That seems reasonable to me. No argument from me. You deserve to have sexual partners who are turned on by your crossdressing. I don't think there's anything wrong with crossdressing in bed as long as more problematic elements (like sissification and forced feminization) don't come into play.

A lot of that seems over the top. And a lot of it looks like “forcing” to enjoy something taboo that both parties enjoy.

I get the theory but I think it’s just how it is. Most women want that active male role and to be passive, it’s their validation. That’s my impression. Validation, like how? That sounds problematic. You don't think women engage sexually for their own physical pleasure?

Their pleasure is from being the “target,” the “prize,” the figure of maximum desire.

That IS their sexual pleasure.

I mean what do you think these women are enjoying about it?

Have you asked other women about this?

They can do. Yeesh, really? Even my partner's shy first girlfriend didn't act dead in bed. She was just more timid.

Have you discussed this with other women?

Eh, well, I only have a sample size of one man, so it's not like I'm an expert. 12 women is a lot.

If that number is higher than average it likely comes from dissatisfaction on my side. Not finding compatible partners. Which is understandable.

But I don't know, I can't help but feel like maybe you're putting too much emphasis on these roles because it's your main insecurity. Leaving aside the crossdressing, which I acknowledge would be problematic for most straight women. I don't think it's that hard for a man to find a woman who is active in bed.

I think you might be underestimating how rare it is.

“Top 10 ways to spice up your sex life.” It’s banal stuff because the ideas are so common and they work. Oh, that stuff. Well, I've done some of that, but not because I was bored. Just for variety. Erotic play doesn't have to be problematic. It doesn't have to be based in BDSM or power plays. My partner and I have done stuff like play with sex dice, sex toys, and have done role play. Those things can be wholesome, not depraved.

But the mild BDSM is common correct?

Well of course. We all are obsessed with it and femininity here on this sub. One way or another. Ha, well, you might be a little more obsessed than others.

Well of course I hope so, or I’ve been doing it wrong.

Of course. Conforming people take it all for granted. As it would be. Yeah, but an outer conforming appearance doesn't mean that a man is doing all the sexual stuff you seem to assume he's doing.

Oh I agree.

There is only an indirect relationship.

My partner isn't sexually dominant and it's never been a hindrance to him.

But he isn’t sexually passive either.

Ha well I don’t want to bring him to it. It’s bad enough you’re reporting back you’re talking to a self confessed crossdresser.

LOL, he knows that I talk about "gender stuff" online. I'm happy to pose specific questions if you have them. I did talk with him a little about masculinity. He doesn't seem to have any conflicts over it. The main thing for him was that his dad put a lot of pressure on him growing up and he didn't really feel like he lived up to his dad's ideal of the "perfect son." He's the oldest son. Not that my partner was ever effeminate, but that his dad didn't think he was enough of an academic or athletic achiever.

The male role of “doer” remains strong.

It’s like that thing about “women have to be, men have to do.” Which both have issues.

But in terms of sex, it doesn't seem like he's ever had a conflict. He's slept with three women. Me, and two prior girlfriends. He's handsome (I might be biased) and was popular with girls. He's a sweet guy, goofy, laid back, has a gentle nature. He's definitely not a dominant or a sadist and has never acted in that role. I asked him if he ever had any sexual insecurities, and he said not really, maybe his penis size when he was a teenager. He just wanted to know he was big enough to satisfy women. We're well matched in terms of libido and he says I'm his best sexual partner because of our chemistry and matching libidos.

Well I’m happy for you in a sincere way. I’m obviously not the poly kind.

I could ask him more if you wanted. I might also post a separate thread about whether sexual stereotypes of men and women are true.

That’s a good question.

Although I can enjoy this sub it can be less, general. Less proportional. The responses are going to be biased. Even my position is very rare.