Did feminism cause the current state of transgender politics?

submitted by Kotal from self.GCdebatesQT

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[–]lairacunda 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

  1. Julie Bindel's position, "I am a lesbian because I say I am", is laughable and controversial among real lesbians who don't recall ever choosing anything. But I don't think that's where trans got the idea, though they may use it to validate themselves.
  2. Meh, some non-sciencey academics wanted more funding for their own departments. Predominantly male science, math and engineering departments would get a lot of funding. Meanwhile women (some also feminist) in the sciences were struggling to be taken seriously and get real jobs. The "facts and science" that trans use to validate their social agenda is usually pretty sketchy. Many academics, scientists and medical and psych professionals collude with trans and thereby legitimate the movement. They have very deep pockets. They buy academics and politicians and take over non-profit organizations and charities.
  3. The difference is that "word policing" never made it past a few feminist publications and the subculture. (I have never seen words like herstory or wombmoon anywhere in the mainstream.) Some usage really needed to change, like the ubiquitous use of "man" to indicate humanity. I don't think the reason why was particularly esoteric either.
    A classic publication to emerge from that era was Our Bodies, Ourselves, a women's self-help health guide. It contained no denial of biology but was firmly grounded in reality. It's a better indicator of what the 2nd Wave accomplished for women than any right-wing critique of feminism. I don't see how you can compare "some women have penises" to "women are also humanity" and keep a straight face. The point was and continues to be that sexism is embedded in the language, not that you can change your sex. Language usage changes gradually and organically over time, the way man to indicate humanity is falling into disuse, not through widespread propaganda, bullying and social engineering to get everyone to comply. I don't recall feminism ever attempting to pull that off. It's really a very male approach if you think about it. When TRAs have the force of law behind them, they will resort to decreeing, right now they are still limiting themselves to bullying.
  4. I find the idea of a natural and organicly ocurring patriarchy somewhat ludicrous. The concept sounds more like circular reinforcement. I don't know what ecological or human disaster happened in antiquity or the late pleistocene (end of the last ice-age) to cause the hierarchical, class structure that installed men as the nucleus of the family unit and as the rulers of societies. What is clear to me is that they are ill-equipped to be in charge of families, societies or the world.
    Have you ever actually read Dworkin? If not, this is a good place to start: http://www.mediafire.com/file/j02f3fdwcofey2h/Right-wing_Women.zip/file You can find more of her work here: http://radfem.org/dworkin/ Future historians will have their investigative work cut out for them when they try to determine what caused this mass delusion. In the meantime, before you blame feminists for inventing concepts that have been distorted and hijacked, you might consider the following: Trans as a political and cultural trend develops at a time when: 1) society is making some real strides in breaking down gender stereotypes. Gay Liberation has made it possible for many to step out of obligatory and rigid sex-roles that do not fit them and which they find oppressive. 2) feminism has also won many gains for women, not the least among them the possibility of earning a living outside the home, living outside of a male-ruled family unit, some political representation, real sports teams, widespread access to higher education, career options, fewer restrictions on travel, credit, finances, etc., etc. So no Mister, feminism did not create this monster. This monster IS the patriarchy (whose existence you so doubt) morphing to regain control over the women who are lost to it, the ones who got away. Every demand that trans makes is a demand that undermines women and girls. Trans males win awards and fill quotas set aside exclusively for women, they take high-end jobs and get counted as women. On the poorer end of the scale, they are allowed to invade shelters and previously sex-segregated prisons lording it over women refugees and inmates. They have forced their way into all-female institutions that had been around for 100 years. Trans, along with their incel allies, demand sex from women who are no longer obligated to service them through coerced relationships and institutions. They actively brainwash children into doubting their own reality and destroy the integrity of future LGB (and straight) adults. As difficult as it may be to grasp, trans are the *shock-troops** of the patriarchy. The fact that they are getting away with it is *proof of its existence.

[–]MezozoicGaygay male 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

I find the idea of a natural and organicly ocurring patriarchy somewhat ludicrous. The concept sounds more like circular reinforcement

Actually in reality this concept is just outdated and coming from times when physical strenght meant everything. Society made new tools and technologically progressed, but methods (forcibly) left the same as they were when humans had only stone spears as instruments. Society need to change to face the new reality, however this will mean than people in power will lose it. That is why they are so fiercely fighting against changes.

When people nowadays are criticizing feminism (especially when basing their critics on neoliberal feminism) - they seems to not be aware that just 40 years ago (and in my country 25 years ago) no woman was allowed to own a land or open bank account and have debit/credit card.

They actively brainwash children into doubting their own reality and destroy the integrity of future LGB (and straight) adults.

And this is just legalized conversion therapy.

The fact that they are getting away with it is *proof of its existence.

Not just that. In our country trans rights activists in last 2 years got more money as a support from western organizations, than whole LGB community in last 30 years combined. And if reports could be trusted, organizations like Stonewall received around 430 million dollars to spend on transgender activism in last 5 years. And that is a lot, like really a lot. I am not fan of conspiracy theories, but this seems fishy to me.

[–]lairacunda 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Patriarchy seems to be a more recent development. There's evidence for sex parity in the stone age and early neolithic. The ideas contemporary society has about prehistory are based largely on the prejudices and beliefs of 19th century anthropologists, archaeologists and scientists.

The entire social engineering experiment is being funded.

[–]MezozoicGaygay male 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I would not say it is 19th century invention, because even in ancient world it was like that. It was less strict, it is true - as women could do things or be in power sometimes, but only sometimes and only if they try really hard (or got lucky). So maybe it was not called patriarchy, but roots for it were there.

And your point is correct, in more primitive, and especially isolated cases, tribes - women could even be the central in society, mostly because of women ability to gave birth. In small (like pacific ocean "Love Island") tribes, they can sacrifice all men to let at least one woman to live, because they know that woman will continue their tribe and heritage.

So I should take a bit more late times in development, when society become society and social rules started to appear.

[–]lairacunda 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I didn't mean that patriarchy got invented in the 1800s. I meant that the social sciences that explain prehistory to us are largely an invention of that generation of men.