you are viewing a single comment's thread.

view the rest of the comments →

[–]levoyageur718293 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Q1) No, because we clearly need two somethings in order to get together and have a baby, and it seems reasonable to call those sexes. Q2) Even if microbiologists are working out some kind of chicanery about how embryos develop in the first hours or weeks after conception, it doesn't change the facts on the ground in the visible world. All males are males because of their visible sexual characteristics, laid down in stone at the time of their birth or perhaps some time before. If it turns out that all human beings spend a brief period of time in the embryonic stage as ambiguously sexed, then that's fascinating evidence about the march of medical science and biology - but surely any QT type will tell you (as Ana Mardoll tells us) that the key ingredient to being trans is that your gender identity is different from your sex. In short, "trans man" means "person of the 'male gender identity' who was born with female genitalia." If there's no transition, there's no trans.

[–]AllInOne[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Transition means change, what I meant by "trans man" in "if it were true that female is the default phenotype or the default sex then all males would be trans men" was that if it were true that all males started out as females during their embryonic development, then that means sex changed, females became males, and there was a transition from female to male in utero -- a change of sex from female to male for all males -- so all males would be trans men as in there was a literal change of sex happening in there for them. If sex can not change, then there is no such a thing as a "trans man" or a "trans woman", because one can not change from female to male or from male to female, but if males started out as females in utero, then that means all males transitioned/changed sex from female to male in utero and all males would be trans men

[–]levoyageur718293 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

What that would mean, therefore, is that an ordinary man - a man with a penis, testicles, Adam's apple, healthy sperm, and multiple children he got from having sex with women - was just as much a "trans man" as Buck Angel. What's the point of counting things that way?

This isn't an argument you can solve with a dictionary or with these kinds of thought experiments.

[–]AllInOne[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

The word trans comes from transition, which means change, what the word "trans man" means is "woman changed to man" or "female changed to male". Did Buck Angel change sex? Did Buck Angel go from female to male by taking hormones, etc? I would say no, so she can not be a "trans man". She's a female who thinks she's a man. But if all males started out as females in utero, that means all males changed sex from female to male during development, which would mean all males are "trans men". That would mean sex can change during development, but not after birth, so no matter what Buck Angel does, she can not go from female to male since that change can only happen before birth. All of these things depends on the statemtnt that "males start out as females, female is the default phenotype or sex", if that statement is wrong then everything shatters and sex can not change before birth either so males are not females that transitioned to male in utero, they would just be males from the beginning

[–]levoyageur718293 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Then what do you want to call natal female people who call themselves "trans men?" I legit don't understand what you're getting at.

[–]AllInOne[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Natal female people who call themselves "trans men" are not "trans men", they are just deluded females who believe they are men, so they should be called female, just what they are. The point of GC is that there is no such thing as a "trans man" or a "trans woman" or a "trans" anything as sex can not change (sex can not change after birth at the very least if we go with the statement that males started out as females in utero)