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[–]proc0 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (11 children)

Why do mods need to be checked?

How would you prevent another mod from abusing powers? Is there going to be no global moderation? There's going to be horrible subs, and probaby taken over by porn or trolls.

[–]fschmidt[S] 3 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 3 fun -  (10 children)

Porn won't be allowed. There will be some horrible subs but you can mute them. For me, most subs are horrible anyway. I discussed how to avoid offending normal users here. With this system, I don't care if there are troll subs or other horrible subs.

[–]proc0 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (9 children)

Ok, i was reviewing that other thread. Interesting so far, but IMO it's not enough to really come up with something much different than Saidit.

For example, you said:

I see no need for site-wide moderation (except for things like illegal content, porn, etc.).

Then you mention how mods would have total control over their subs... how do you reconcile these two features/ideas? In theory it's a contradiction. Either mods have FULL control and allow literally anything, or by definition they will have PARTIAL control. Where that line really is, I think is besides the point, because you will be in the same position as Saidit where someone else is telling you what is allowed in your sub. You can argue, well porn is obvious, however there is infinite amounts of gray area where the discussion could never end as to what should or should not be considered porn, depending on the sub.

In other words, if it's not the owner of the sub having FULL control, then eventually the discussion of where the boundaries are for PARTIAL control would land you more/less where Saidit (and even Reddit) is at the moment. This is the core of a lot of the problems. People disagree on what is allowed, but that's because it's almost impossible to define that line of partial control.

[–]JasonCarswell 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

it's almost impossible

Agreed.

[–]fschmidt[S] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (7 children)

Obviously I can't allow FULL control because if I allow illegal speech, I will be shut down. The goal is simply to allow much more free speech than anywhere else. The line can never be perfectly exact, but I think this goal is worthy enough. My views, or Nazi views, or other extremely unpopular views aren't allowed to be expressed in any social media. My site would be the only one to allow such views.

[–]proc0 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (6 children)

The line can never be perfectly exact

Right, but this is precisely the problem. And what happens is that the sites start off with great intentions but because the free speech line is so hard to pin down, inevitably the new people come in and ruin it by interpreting that line as something that tramples on free speech for most people.

Presumably growth and reaching millions of people is part of the goal, since other smaller boards do allow the free speech you're talking about (like the 4chans and such). I understand you have good intentions but you won't be able to monitor all the conversations and impose your goodwill for very long if you intend on growth to happen. That's why either the free speech line has to be formally defined (with strict definition that covers almost every possible corner case), and/or the site has some novel feature(s) for ensuring that the future mods will not trample on the free speech.

I think there are some solutions there, but it would require a vastly different structure to the forum platforms, and therefore probably new code from the ground up.

[–]fschmidt[S] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (5 children)

The ideal solution would be decentralized. I described this here. I tried to find a programmer to help with this, but no takers. So now I am going for a non-ideal solution that at least can be launched. If you insist on the ideal, then FreedIt won't work for you.

[–]proc0 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (4 children)

Sounds like the Fediverse, are you familiar? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fediverse

Maybe you should consider Freedit as a fediverse platform? I've been trying to learn more about it, to see if the problems I mentioned are solvable there or maybe there's an existing one that solves it. I know there is Mastodon, but heard it has the same problems. Perhaps a new one on there could be the solution, and it would still be allowed to benefit from the larger existing network.

[–]JasonCarswell 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

The Fediverse has tribally split into Woke and Deplorable.

[–][deleted]  (1 child)

[deleted]

    [–]JasonCarswell 3 insightful - 4 fun3 insightful - 3 fun4 insightful - 4 fun -  (0 children)

    I don't have any specific details on hand but it's generally known.

    The Fediverse is decentralized and technically any instance is free to associate/connect with whoever they like. If you don't like Nazis, asstrolls, or whatever your intolerances are, then you need not link with them. The problem arises when you have people determining you are guilty by association. If you have Right friends then despite your neutral content your Left friends will cut you off for not being intolerant. Thus the Far Left that has taken over Corporate and Social Media has infested the Alternative Media sphere. I suspect there may even be different separate "Deplorable" factions out there as well as various SJWs cliques that don't get along, thus the tribalism may not be quite so black and shite.

    It seems to me we need a new similar system where everyone automatically mirrors everything, but filters would hide unwanted things, and there would have to be a checks and balances system to deal with illegal content before or after it gets shared widely - the only censorship required.

    A simple search (https://duckduckgo.com/?q=Fediverse+division) reveals a few related things I haven't read but may be interesting:

    Mastodon really is crumbling — and it will only get worse
    February 2, 2021
    https://sporks.space/2021/02/02/mastodon-really-is-crumbling-and-it-will-only-get-worse/

    Understanding the growth of the Fediverse through the lens of Mastodon
    01 September 2021
    https://appliednetsci.springeropen.com/articles/10.1007/s41109-021-00392-5

    Misconceptions About Mastodon and the Fediverse
    19 September 2019
    https://davidwolfpaw.com/misconceptions-about-mastodon-and-the-fediverse/

    [–]fschmidt[S] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

    Yes I know about the Fediverse idea. The issue is that I don't have the programming resources to do anything in this area. I am a programmer myself, but I have other obligations. The advantage of a SaidIt clone is that I can actually do this now without any programming resources. Getting just a little help from a Python programmer could solve the immediate SaidIt issues. Again, not ideal, but better than nothing.