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[–]magnora7 4 insightful - 3 fun4 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 3 fun -  (15 children)

This coming from a guy who just made a post about attracting looters to shoot with a gun!

Take a look in the mirror! I think saidit has had enough of your baseless lies, talking-points propaganda, and dragging discussion down the pyramid of debate. Goodbye.

[–]fred_red_beans 5 insightful - 5 fun5 insightful - 4 fun6 insightful - 5 fun -  (14 children)

That's too bad...

[–]magnora7 4 insightful - 3 fun4 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 3 fun -  (13 children)

Yeah it is too bad... He's been here a long time and occasionally has great posts. But I can't just let these things fester, especially when it's becoming clear to me that his long-term goal is to post a whole lot (20x a day, every day, for months) to sway the website culture in the direction of easily-verifiable disinformation and extremism, which is very much against our mission goal of not becoming voat.

[–]fred_red_beans 4 insightful - 5 fun4 insightful - 4 fun5 insightful - 5 fun -  (12 children)

I did find the information he posted interesting at times. I think it's fair to call out this post in particular as there should be some evidence the tweet existed somewhere (other than a screen shot).

His complaining about anti-semitism looks bad, especially if he won't really back it up. I know he argued that Jusuits were the core of the cult rather than Zionists et al, and I do think he should be able to argue whatever point he want's to.

I think Jesus made a valid point here:

Why is he so far from the truth? You cannot just link a YouTube video and say nothing else. You did that to me, when I explained what I believe the Monita Secreta really was and where it came from. You literally linked me a video talking about Nazis and not once did it mention the 16th century episode of the blood Purity Laws of the old Jesuits and the Monita Secreta.

https://saidit.net/s/Infographics/comments/4vua/names_of_the_titles_of_all_33_degrees_of/i8u4

Again, I think useless_aether has contributed a lot of interesting posts as well...

It seems to me that perhaps he's become more argumentative in the last months, with you, Jesus, and other users. We are all in a period of time where everyone is more aggravated and is driven to be so. Perhaps he just felt more passionate about his position rather than having a goal of swaying this website culture? His own passion may have led him to shitty sources as well.

I don't know, perhaps you've had issues going back for a while and have had other communications in regards to such. Dude's been here for a while though and mod's 24 subs. He's always posted a lot. What posts do you feel are easily-verifiable disinformation and extremism?

I guess I just feel his dismissal shouldn't be taken lightly as I've seen him as core poster for a long time, even when there was not so much traffic here, he posted something worth considering.

[–]magnora7 7 insightful - 4 fun7 insightful - 3 fun8 insightful - 4 fun -  (4 children)

Well d3rr seems to agree, so perhaps I've over-reached and banned when I should not have. He was really riding that line, where some posts were great, and others were obviously divide-and-conquer disinformation. His refusal to further his understanding on issues that he would constantly post about was dragging discussion down the pyramid of debate.

I will unban him and give him another chance. Trust me this is not a decision I made lightly, this literally took up 3 hours of my day today and he received many warnings beforehand. And he did agree to not ever to post posts advocating violence again, like did yesterday. But I will reverse the decision since both you and d3rr seem to think I've made a mistake by banning him, and I also do think he had a lot of good posts that I will miss. He did make 5 more accounts to post content as ban evasions though, so that wasn't a good look either.

But okay, I'll undo the ban. He gets one more chance.

[–]fred_red_beans 5 insightful - 4 fun5 insightful - 3 fun6 insightful - 4 fun -  (2 children)

The divide-and-conquer disinformation is everywhere right now, coming from all angles. It's hard to even form any new face to face relationships at all now that we're obliged to wear masks.

I would agree that riding a high horse on your own ideology does not make for good debate, and that making extra accounts for ban evasion is rather silly.

I realize this site must take up a good chunk of your time. Fortunately, you seem to continue to enjoy it for the most part as well. I think having a benevolent ruler type of structure here is not so bad as long as you guys stay consistent with your values and do your best to stay transparent on decisions, which I think you do.

Sounds fair. Hopefully discourse continues in a respectful manner.

[–]magnora7 3 insightful - 4 fun3 insightful - 3 fun4 insightful - 4 fun -  (1 child)

Thank you sir.

[–]fred_red_beans 4 insightful - 4 fun4 insightful - 3 fun5 insightful - 4 fun -  (0 children)

Cheers! :)

[–]magnora7 4 insightful - 5 fun4 insightful - 4 fun5 insightful - 5 fun -  (0 children)

/u/useless_aether you've been unbanned, we're giving you another chance, please do not ever advocate violence again, and please respect the pyramid of debate.

[–]Jesus 6 insightful - 5 fun6 insightful - 4 fun7 insightful - 5 fun -  (5 children)

I wouldn't ban useless_aether but now I know what he stands for and he is fine with expressing his views in a non-fallacious way to inform us in what he believes to be true...

On poal.co, of which I was a member way back when, useless aether was also a member, in which he posted this:

Why is everyone else smarter than us? India prepares to bar citizenship for Muslims, incarcerate and deport Muslim residents (archive.md) useless_aether

Meaning he clearly believes that muslims should be bared from citizenship in the US; incarcerated and deported. He posts this but then tells me that I want to genocide Jews for criticizing Likudnik Jews and Judaism, telling me you will have "blood on your hands..."

I never ONCE posted that Jews should be incarcerated, deported and barred from citizenship. I am merely against dual-citizenship in government. Israelis ie. Israeli Nationals should not be in US government let alone in the Whitehouse. nor should Qatari Nationals but Jews are welcome and so are not muslims! The latter group, it appears, Aether wants out of the country which in itself is a form of genocide by international Law, not that the US or Israel care.

[–]JasonCarswell 4 insightful - 3 fun4 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 3 fun -  (4 children)

^

IMO, it's always seemed clear what he stands for, perhaps now more intently. Is there something else I'm missing?

Banning is bad. IMO they should agree to disagree earlier in their conversations and cut the heated bickering short. Never easy to do.

[–]Jesus 6 insightful - 3 fun6 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 3 fun -  (3 children)

I think he was originally banned because he posted a few comments enticing violence on others.

[–]JasonCarswell 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

Thanks.

IMO there should be a public forum sub for when there's room for doubt and need for clarity (not just spam or asstrolls) to be dealt with by one's peers rather than some overworked arbitrary private anonymous dictator with a secret roadmap and without any expressed strong leadership vision for the future of SaidIt. Not only would this sub be the place to learn about community issues and a centralized place to keep tabs and counterbalance the problems it could be a place to openly develop policy rather than some arbitrary vague rules like Reddit. It would suck if SaidIt became Sreddit-Lite. Further, I'd like to see fucking logged EXAMPLES of the 3 strikes because so far a lot of it has been flimsy grey area bullshit (not counting the obvious short lived violators). It might also be nice to see 3 ban modes: 1 week to step back take time and cool down, 1 month timeout to show that its getting serious, and a 3rd permanent ban. I would bet there'd be dozens of other fantastic simple ideas (wiki logs of examples) that could be presented to streamline the conflict deescalation/resolution process without actually making more rules - and of course could make it much easier for M7 while also giving the trigger happy mods something else to do that could potentially help keep them in check while teaching them and others more about the different SaidIt culture making our own better way. My 2 cents.

[–]Jesus 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

I agree 100%. A democratic sub where people talk about bans and a three strike log would be awesome.

[–]JasonCarswell 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

I've mentioned it many times (except the log). I've tried to present the idea of making SaidIt more democratic with peer feedback and judgements rather some arbitrary dictator, but as nicely as I could to M7 so that he can ultimately decide what to embrace or not - but I think he feels any openness or democracy is a threat to him or something. I think more minds are better than one, and I'd rather be censured and censored by the group (or more likely just a part of the group) than one curmudgeon. It would look better on him too, not having to be the big bad meanie.

[–]Jesus 4 insightful - 3 fun4 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

/u/magnora7

https://saidit.net/s/USPolitics/comments/4xon/michigan_muslim_cleric_calls_us_a_police_state/

^ ^ ^ Read this post. A debate between Azaad and Useless_aether. It's long but at the end, after you click the link to the next page he appears to forum slide and drag the debate down considerably. And I noticed he was overtly putting words in Azaad's mouth like it was almost coordinated to try to get him to agree to something.

Azaad personally had enough with him and ended the debate.

That being said, I think a ban was a little harash but as of late he has been quite argumentive in all the wrong fallacious ways.