My Body... My Choice..

submitted by useless_aether from (imgoat.com)

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[–]wizzwizz4 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

I should find cheat debate sites, that can make my arguments for me… LOL

Well, many people on this site do do that. But, as you can see from your own ability to cherry-pick the cases where it did fall, it's actually not a very biased source.

it absolutely does show that mortality rates fall; period.

Only in Los Angeles (1976) and possibly Jerusalem (2000). In Jerusalem (1983), possibly Spain (1990), Croatia (2003) and three others, no such fall was found. So, only a quarter of strikes showed a fall in mortality rates.

are you familiar with the concept of doctors operating on patients when not necessary, but for profit alone?

Yeah, I'd heard of that happening in the more backwards countries where that's financially encouraged. But this isn't actually relevant to vaccines, since they're not made by doctors.

The little boy did not deserve what he got. Seizures are not a symptom of meningitis, however febrile seizures do occur in 4% of ½–5 year-olds when they get fevers. This, however, does not look like a febrile seizure; it looks like epilepsy.

I can't think of a mechanism by which Bexsero could cause epilepsy, or even bacterial meningitis, since it doesn't contain the bacteria that cause it. The worst that could happen is an immune response resulting in fever.

But let's go with it, and say that this is a symptom of the vaccine. This child will probably survive. Think of how rare this is, and then think of how deadly bacterial meningitis is. Assuming that this was caused by the vaccine – which is dubious anyway – it's worth it.

[–]HeyImSancho 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Wizz,

No cherry picking, just loved that it was a 'kill shot' site, a site where their only intended goal is to carry the official narrative as the word of some god sent forth to crush any dissent; am I wrong? I don't like that, I want variety of sources to garner my information; to make my own mind up.

Likewise, with either the doctors striking, or the boy sick with 'something', it was my attempt to convey that there are tons of unknowns, uncertainties, and variables where by life isn't a cookie cutter situation. Could a vaccine save your life, or ruin your life? Both are absolute possibilities; it's undeniable. For myself, I lean away from allopathic medicine, and towards hollistic, no denying it.

[–]wizzwizz4 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

am I wrong?

Apart from the "as the word of some god" part, no. But it's extremely hard to find unbiased sources nowadays. That page, at least, wasn't biased in which evidence it chose, unlike Breitbart et al..

Could a vaccine save your life, or ruin your life?

Yes. But it's much more likely to save your life than ruin it.

… I probably shouldn't tell you this. But after sitting here for two minutes staring at the screen, I think I'm going to anyway. *sigh* I hope this doesn't kill anyone.

From a game theory point of view, assuming that each individual chooses individually and is a selfish rational agent unable to predict any other agent:

  • if few people vaccinate, it is vastly better to be vaccinated.
  • if everybody vaccinates, it is slightly better to be unvaccinated but this benefit is miniscule – a benefit comparable with winning the lottery first try – and goes away if many people go unvaccinated.

The more other people vaccinate, the better it is for you. That's why most countries solve this pseudo-"prisoner's dilemma" in such a way that results in a stable state with a lower fatality rate than the "individual" one. Everybody agrees to do what the government tells them to do, and then they vote on what the government tells them to do. If you could vote to make a choice for everyone (not immunocompromised), including yourself, and guarantee that everybody was either vaccinated or not vaccinated, every rational, selfish agent would vote for "vaccinated" and it would benefit all of them.

Now assume that the government isn't mandating it. Instead, assume that many people will make the same decision as you, for the same reasons. So really, you're choosing for multiple people who think the same way as you.

What's it going to be?

[–]HeyImSancho 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

I link to several sites, none of which I personally endorse(I honestly try not to 'own' any opinion other than what I personally come up with), and often times articles i post, or threads I participate in, I don't personally 'own' any certain position, other than all objective angles, and 'what works'; meaning 5, 10, 20, 50+ years from now.

As far as vaccines, I know both sides of the debate, I get where you're coming from, and I also get where the anti-vaxxers are coming from. I'm actually neither; I don't have an opinion other than I usually will take the position of what I see as the anti-establishment, or underdog choice/stance/argument.

An angle in regards to general public health, that hasn't been covered are parasites, and hygiene. We're forced to touch more, and more in this 21st century. If the McDonald's kiosk touch screens have fecal matter, then what of the credit card machines everywhere? Fecal matter has live parasites.

If you read into the topic of parasites; they're everywhere, and cause a large health impact. Yet not much of an outcry from anyone over this, and it's a serious health issue for everyone.

Another angle to any debate in our modern world is the idea of 'break away' societies. I think we're there now in so many ways. While we debate here, what impact does a single opinion have, or multiples? A single cohesive group could be formed, but life proves this never happens. I can totally see a future world split in many ways, or demarcation lines perhaps on par with how Israel has set up for varying cohesive groups, and perhaps the 'outsiders' who just let everything go.

We're getting there.

[–]wizzwizz4 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I honestly try not to 'own' any opinion other than what I personally come up with

Same. I merely linked the site because I found it when searching, and summed up the evidence better than I; I didn't get my opinion from that site in the first place, and in fact have never visited it before.

I usually will take the position of what I see as the anti-establishment, or underdog choice/stance/argument.

The contrarian is an important role to play in any debate, but make sure you don't get too attached to your contrarian position. That being said, don't become contra-contrarian either. (warning: site has anti-death bias)

Yet not much of an outcry from anyone over this, and it's a serious health issue for everyone.

I hear loads about hand-washing and the importance of hygiene. It's something that is somewhat instilled in my local culture, actually; people infrequently shame (comment on) each other for not washing hands after going to the toilet, etc..

I'm not sure what you mean by the breakaway societies thing. It seems like you've attempted to articulate a large, large coherent thought, but there's far more information that you're trying to convey than can have been represented by that paragraph.

[–]HeyImSancho 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Break away societies.... Today, we can choose to live as primitive cave people using a large database of 'primitive technologies', or blast off into space using 'high technologies'. Both have volumes of information to learn, in regards to the knowledge necessary to survive, and thrive in said societies.

Likewise with the Internet, and given some natural acumen, any skill, or subject can be conquered in a relative short time frame; as opposed to yesteryear where that information, and knowledge may of necessitated years of study.

I donno long term how everything will fall, but we've seen the Internet alone, change the world, and it's still changing.

[–]wizzwizz4 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

That's true, and bears thinking about.