you are viewing a single comment's thread.

view the rest of the comments →

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (18 children)

Wait a minute, I am making COLLOIDAL silver, not ions. Making ions out of a 30v PSU would mean a chemical reaction rather than an electro-physical one.

I think they're essentially interchangeable, and I know that's a hot topic of debate but this guy really hits the hammer on the nail

Good luck, let me know if you figure it out.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (14 children)

Well from my understanding of physics, there is no way low-voltage, low-current electrodes in distilled water make ions. The concentration of charge in ions is such that I find it unimaginable that such a weak power supply would result in them.

Also, his article makes claims about "ions vs particles" but never demonstrates the highly dubious physics of ions out of a 9V battery for example. Yes, there is an electric charge that promotes the suspension of silver. But that doesn't have to mean ions: metals share their electrons.

I remain unconvinced, but I don't know where to turn to for the physics of it, since any search engine when going "colloidal silver" will show me pages where to buy it and equipment, but not real science.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

The stuff I make with a 9V battery has a strange refraction, I assume from the silver, but the real proof it's silver in there comes if you leave the batch sitting for weeks, it turns ink black, silver nitrate. I've also tested the anti bacterial properties of it in a super scientific experiment involving moldy bread and on my bathroom walls (no ventilation so mold is a problem)

I do have some bad news. Silver isn't the best at what it does. Ultimately bleach worked way better on the walls, and a simple otc antibacterial cream was far more effective for wound care. Even tested a commercial silver antibacterial cream. It would follow that prescription antibiotics are also far more effective than silver.

Also, a piece of silver in a bowl of water doesn't keep it fresh longer, tried that too, but silvering is used in the water holds of ships.

I don't know if trying to make a colloidal suspension will do better, the article I linked didn't think so. I suspect not, but please do test it.

don't know where to turn to for the physics of it, since any search engine when going "colloidal silver" will show me pages where to buy it and equipment, but not real science.

I have the same problem. There's a lot of junk info out there.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Just the fact that colloidal silver can be yellow speaks of a particle size that is much greater than the atomic scale of actual ions.

Often it is not yellow but clear, but made with the same process that also results in yellow CS, if only at lower current settings. This leads me to conclude that the particles are then smaller and thus don't interfere with visible light, but not as different a size as to be near atomic scale.

[–]bobbobbybob 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Why. I have been making and using colloidal silver for over 16 years... I just got a new setup and seek to better understand the physics.

But the 1906 paper uses a high current method, while I have no access to the sciencedirect one... :-(

[–]bobbobbybob 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

sci-hub.se is your friend.

[–]bobbobbybob 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

an ion is merely a particle - an atomic particle - in solution.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

Yes, whereas colloids are multiple atom particles suspended - not in solution - through electrical charge repulsion in a medium.

[–]bobbobbybob 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

through electrical charge repulsion in a medium.

um. I thought i understood ionic chemistry extremely well, but now i'm just confused. Where did you get that definition from?

colloid: a homogeneous non-crystalline substance consisting of large molecules or ultramicroscopic particles of one substance dispersed through a second substance. Colloids include gels, sols, and emulsions; the particles do not settle, and cannot be separated out by ordinary filtering or centrifuging like those in a suspension.

nothing to do with electrical charge repulsion.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Well, the ones we make with the electrical process use electrical repulsion. You are taking textbook definitions and assuming they do not apply to a particular case where they do apply.

How do you think multi-atom AG particles stay suspended in distilled water? Magic?

[–]bobbobbybob 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

How do you think multi-atom AG particles stay suspended in distilled water? Magic?

They are very very small, and each of the surface atoms is able to enter into an ionic state, making an ionically dissolved nanoparticle.

'electrical repulsion' is an odd term. why would a silver particle retain an electrical charge, when in solution? the electrons would just wander away. Ionic solubility is related to electron orbitals, not some extraneous charge.

Also, not sure why the negativity. <geek joke>

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

You have it backwards. How on Earth do you have ions out of a low-voltage, low-amp power supply? Unless they are reacting chemically with something, the silver atoms are NOT IONS. This is not a solution, it's a SUSPENSION. That is the definition of COLLOID. A solution is something else entirely.

It's not ionic. It's not a solution.

[–]bobbobbybob 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

https://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/acs.langmuir.5b03686

If you look, the suspension of the silver colloid is facilitated by ionisation of surface particles (indeed, this is the mechanism for silver delivery by the nano particles).

but for colloids in general, it is jsut the size that keeps them suspended. they are so tiny they don't settle.

I'm still pretty sure that an ionic component is required for true colloids, but maybe i'm wrong. My experience comes from emulsions (liquid colloids), which require an emulsifying agent to bridge between the fat and water.

Edit. for silver, at least, the 410nm plasmon band confirms silver ion reduction in colloidal nanoparticles: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1876619609003933

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

It's bullshit. You can't ionize surface atoms in a metallic particle. That's not how metals work.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

You guys are fascinating.

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

Well, thanks I guess. I'm hardly an expert but I figured we're the only two people who probably ever done this before on Saidit.

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

There are a handful of users here who have shown me many new things, just from y'all sharing your lifestyle and improving your knowledge through conversation and questions. It is refreshing, man.

I love to learn new things, and y'all have shown me many things that would've taken a long time to discover on my own. It's just fascinating.