The Classes

submitted by fschmidt from mikraite.org

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[–]JasonCarswell 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (13 children)

Excellent essay!

Just as it states Judaism is one way to organize as freemen, I'd suggest that while there's the oppressive technocracy serving elite interests - and counter to that force are the cyber-freemen. All the people who are building their own open source and decentralized platforms, alternatives and solutions, and creating independent media and sharing critical analysis and contextual understanding - these too are freemen.

[–]fschmidt[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (12 children)

Thanks.

I am a programmer, so I can relate to the idea of cyber-freemen, but it is a little complicated. Programmers rarely control their own economic destiny and generally team up with elites for business. This has a corrupting effect on programmers, and programming is currently one of the most depraved areas of human activity (about tied with modern music). Any programmer with sound values will be an outcast in the world of programming, and this applies just as much to open source. It is extremely difficult to find undepraved programmers. I just advertised for one, and after paying for an ad that is listed all over the world, I managed to find one worth hiring. You can see my thoughts on programming issues here. For programmers to really become freemen, there must be some way for them to earn a living other than by serving the elites.

[–]JasonCarswell 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

You should meet: /u/d3rr, /u/Mnemonic, and /u/wizzwizz4. I'm sure there are more, but I don't recall.

[–]wizzwizz4 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

There is. Check out the work of Marko Saric. I'm sorry I don't have many other people to list; my memory's hazy when I'm tired. (I only remembered Marko because I was just talking to him.)

If you poke around a bit, you'll find a place where we all hang out and chat. I'm not linking it here (like I used to when Saidit was young), because I seriously don't trust that it won't end up swarmed by a renegade band of trolls if I do.

(Thanks /u/JasonCarswell for pinging me. I'm barely active here, so you timed that excellently.)

[–]fschmidt[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Looks like a Mastodon server is the place. I never used Twitter and find the concept alien. Saidit seems okay, I will stay here. /s/programming has some spam but isn't too bad.

Marko Saric seems obsessed with cookies. I don't get it. It's just a technology, and like most technology it can be used for good or evil. His alternative is basically like a cookie, just a lot more work. I would love to find decent alternative to Google Analytics, but I would expect it to use cookies to track users over long time periods. I run an e-commerce website and I need to know what my users are doing over time.

[–]wizzwizz4 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

His alternative is basically like a cookie, just a lot more work.

And, importantly, can't be used to track individual users except in the case of a very inactive site.

Yeah, it's more work extracting the information from the data when you can't track individual users, but that's the point; Plausible operates under the model that Plausible Analytics is not to be trusted. If more systems acted like that, the web would be a better place.

but I would expect it to use cookies to track users over long time periods. I run an e-commerce website and I need to know what my users are doing over time.

Why would you possibly need to know that?

[–]fschmidt[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

And, importantly, can't be used to track individual users except in the case of a very inactive site.

The site uses:

hash(daily_salt + website_domain + ip_address + user_agent)

But hash(website_domain + ip_address + user_agent) is like a cookie, and adding daily_salt is like a cookie that expires after a day. So there really is no difference.

but I would expect it to use cookies to track users over long time periods. I run an e-commerce website and I need to know what my users are doing over time.

Why would you possibly need to know that?

For example I want to know how long after a user visits the site do they buy.

[–]wizzwizz4 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

So there really is no difference.

Multiple profiles on one computer, private mode… all that information is just straight-up not available to Plausible. Yeah, Plausible's using the information it has got, but it's not gathering any more information than that.

For example I want to know how long after a user visits the site do they buy.

Hmm… Why?

[–]fschmidt[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Multiple profiles on one computer - doesn't really happen anymore.

private mode - Here cookies are actually better since they respect private mode while the hash doesn't.

Knowing how long it takes users to buy gives me an idea of when to check whether some random marketing change made any difference for sales.

But let me speak more generally. Modern western culture is completely insane and everything that concerns members of modern western culture is bullshit. Covid is bullshit. Black Lives Matter is bullshit. Cookies are bullshit. HTTPS is bullshit. Etc. The real threat to security is Chrome and apps that steal your data from inside your device. Of course if you are marketing to members of modern western culture, then you have to address their insanity. So making cookies optional for analytics tracking would make sense.

[–]wizzwizz4 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Multiple profiles on one computer - doesn't really happen anymore.

I do it…

private mode - Here cookies are actually better since they respect private mode while the hash doesn't.

You're assuming that Plausible will pay attention only to the cookies, but they have all that information in the first place. Cookies would just provide an additional datapoint; and while they're not evil, how long will they stay that way? (I'm betting a while… but it's the principle of the thing.)

Modern western culture is completely insane and everything that concerns members of modern western culture is bullshit.

https://xkcd.com/2368/

[–]JasonCarswell 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Thanks.

Also, IMO, SaidIt has improved again since the IP2 guys were ejected. Also, now that this post is no longer front page you could likely link it safely without a swarm of asstrolls.

Also, /u/Ynlinga codes, as mentioned here: /s/AskSaidIt/comments/6gy3/what_solutions_exist_now_that/

[–]wizzwizz4 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Also, now that this post is no longer front page you could likely link it safely without a swarm of asstrolls.

Unfortunately, I'm not active enough on Saidit that they couldn't just go through my comment history after I wound them up. Everyone in this thread is aware of it though (in fact, you have an account there), so there's no need to mention it. Anyone interested can DM one of us to ask, or follow the not-so-subtle clues I've already left.

[–]JasonCarswell 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

IMO, you shouldn't let folks bug you - especially if you firmly believe you're doing the right thing. Stay open to improving, but ignore the asstrolls. And, IMO, don't bother with "clues". Make things obvious and clear. There's enough in this world to ponder over.

[–]JasonCarswell 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I don't consider the tech guys at MicroSoft and Google cyber-freemen. Unless they work on open-source code and such in their spare time.

I consider the cyber-freeman those who may not necessarily be freemen (ie. debt slaves, etc), but they are helping to build options towards freedom. I agree, this can be corrupted from below (ie. influenced mindsets, Google Chrome programmers fucking up Firefox, etc.) as well as above (ie. MicroSoft buying their way onto open-source boards, etc).

Interesting reading.

Yes, complete independence is rare. However, independent thought is less rare.