5 Questions For /s/DebateAltRight And All Other Sub-Communities That Are Not Allowed To Dominate /s/All.

submitted by JasonCarswell from self.Cassy

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[–]Dragonerne 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (6 children)

I liked your tag suggestion. Users could choose their own moderators/admins.

[–]JasonCarswell[S] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (5 children)

That's a novel interesting twist.

If I understand you correctly:
If you choose your own "leader(s)" then you are held responsible to them and their standards. If there's a greater problem with one or more individuals under their supervision then the problematic individual(s) and leaders in question might be held accountable (whatever that means) and the other folks under their supervision may need to find new moderators.

I don't like hierarchy but recognize it's often necessary. I don't like my terms here. Leader, mentor, supervisor, etc. I could spend forever trying to find alternative terms to adopt but I don't care that much. I just wish everyone could behave civilly without need for any of this.

[–]Dragonerne 1 insightful - 3 fun1 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 3 fun -  (4 children)

It is not about civility. It is about that leftist don't want us to expose their lies, so if we have a platform they will use millions of dollars trying to stop that in any way that they can and they are very creative. One of those ways is gaining admin power through infiltration or other means.

This is the problem you need to fix: How to make it impossible for leftists to impose their will on the users

[–]JasonCarswell[S] 2 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 3 fun -  (3 children)

It is not about civility.

Yes it is. Civil people don't need rules.

It is about that leftist don't want us to expose their lies

Out there, yes. On SaidIt, no. Playing the victim here doesn't fly.

so if we have a platform they will use millions of dollars trying to stop that in any way that they can and they are very creative. One of those ways is gaining admin power through infiltration or other means.

Infiltration is a tale as old as time.

Trusted-team and/or admins are accountable to the site owner(s) and IMO should be openly challenged and held accountable by the community in line with the stated manifestos, constitutions, goals, and the foundations that will anchor all discourse as initially laid out by the site owner. If the community doesn't like the mission statement they can leave and start their own.

This is the problem you need to fix: How to make it impossible for leftists to impose their will on the users

IFIFY:
This is the problem WE need to fix: How to make it impossible for extremists and normies to impose their will on the users

[–]Dragonerne 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

On SaidIt, no.

Lol, have you seen how Saidit has been under attack after we joined the website?

Trusted-team and/or admins are accountable to the site owner(s) and IMO should be openly challenged and held accountable by the community in line with the stated manifestos, constitutions, goals, and the foundations that will anchor all discourse as initially laid out by the site owner. If the community doesn't like the mission statement they can leave and start their own.

This is not good enough to stop leftist censorship.

This is the problem WE need to fix: How to make it impossible for extremists and normies to impose their will on the users

However you want to frame it as long as leftists can't gain power to censor me or limit my visibility or in other ways disadvantage me compared to everyone else.

[–]JasonCarswell[S] 2 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 3 fun -  (1 child)

Lol, have you seen how Saidit has been under attack after we joined the website?

You're not a victim and the attacks are not unique to your experience. Truth-seekers across the spectrum are demonized and often called Alt-Right whether they are or not. It's an easy label for the normies and it avoids dealing with the ugly truths that they're trying to suppress, regardless of ideologies.

This is not good enough to stop leftist censorship.

You may very well be correct. IMO, it's worth trying. If it's a little better that's great. If we can improve on that with new ideas that's even better. Doing nothing is unacceptable, IMO.

However you want to frame it as long as leftists can't gain power to censor me

IMO, you should try to be more clear about what kind of leftists you dislike. SJWs, Democrats, fake-progressives, and commies are all VERY problematic. Old-leftists, authentic progressives, anarcho-socialist are not problematic and likely have more in common with you than you do with the GOP and NeoCon Zionist totalitarians.

or limit my visibility or in other ways disadvantage me compared to everyone else.

You're NOT a victim. You're the only one from your community obtuse and still bitching about this. The Iron Left was also removed from /s/All.

[–]Dragonerne 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

You may very well be correct. IMO, it's worth trying. If it's a little better that's great.

It wont work and it is not better. We need a system that give the power to the user and not to the users, but to the individual user. Any system where you grant power over the users, can be attacked by killing that person and taking control- which is something leftists would do, make no mistake about that, if the site became popular. Any system where the majority of users need to proactively deal with censorship against those in power will not work, because censorship removes the voice of those that are the victims of it, leaving the majority of users unaware and the few that notice some of it, think it is not widespread or important enough to do anything about, and if they do speak up, those few can be added to the list of silenced voices. This is how r/Denmark has operated for several years. Their methods of censorship is like this: - Downvote posts in /new that they do not like to 0 through mass downvotes, so that it never is seen by the masses.
- Downvote comments that they do not like so that the majority do not see those comments.
- Forum slide a post with 25 new posts, so that the disliked topic is pushed off /new page 1
- Derail a post that they do not like by commenting and changing the topic of the post.
- Derail a popular comment by hijacking it and talk about something unrelated.
- Ban active right wing users that get upvotes. Active is the important part. You can be right wing as long as you aren't active or get visibility, which means most right wingers aren't directly impacted.
- Add rules that punish the behaviour of those that you do not like. - Enforce rules one sided, allow users to "appeal" wrong decisions - Ban the mention of competing subs with less biased moderation.
- Act as if you are unbiased by using vague language that everyone can agree with.

I probably forgot some. These are the things that needs to be impossible in a perfect system. The best example was when the most popular and active user u/maktone got banned 6 months before the election, despite him following every single rule. Then they added a rule called "Agenda Pushing" and he asked them what he must do to avoid getting banned from this rule, to which they replied that he had to be active in many different topics, which he then did and after a month, they banned him anyway, using that new rule. The users were in uproar and a couple new subs were created in protest, but mentioning were banned making the switch very hard, and half the users that were triggered by maktone didn't care enough to make the switch regardless, because while they thought it was wrong to do, they were still happy that it was done.

Old-leftists, authentic progressives, anarcho-socialist are not problematic and likely have more in common with you

I don't see them as leftists. Leftists are those that are narcicists, hypocritical, and bootlickers. stupidpol and the likes aren't leftists - the fact that they consider themselves leftists shows how uninformed they are about politics. NeoCons are leftists too. If i'm not wrong, neocons even stem from trotskyism or something.