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[–]Dragonerne 4 insightful - 3 fun4 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 3 fun -  (14 children)

1) Sure 2) This seems like a huge task that would take hours but I can put some initial thoughts. Things I like about the platforms is the data gathering, which enables searches, network detections and other such useful information. Some problems with the platforms: Censorship, like reddit popular, their moderators, their admins. Anything that allows leftists to centralize deplatforming is a big negative. Good thing about reddit is that it takes 0 seconds to create a user.
Power is a bad thing because power corrupts, so leave all power to the users

3) I wouldn't be willing to collaborate with leftist communities. I don't believe that they deserve a voice or to exist in any civilized country. For me personally, it is about survival and it is just not something I am willing to compromise on, because I see them as active genociders. I would tolerate them on the platform but I wouldn't actively collaborate with them.

4) Sure

5) How would you attract normies? And how would you avoid bots/shills/spam?

[–]JasonCarswell[S] 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (13 children)

1) To be clear, administration is not moderation. It's all the Linux technical skills and wherewithal, along with prompt and timely servicing to keep the site up.

2) & 3) I'm asking for all this "bureaucracy" for several reasons.

  • It would show you're serious about it.
  • It's like a business plan, with firm foundations yet obviously adaptable.
  • It should leave leave little room for confusion or doubt regarding what the forum is about.
  • It would allow different forums to determine what they can and can't agree on for collaborative efforts to better resist censorship and tyranny.

I aim to develop many template-sets with many variables for many types of communities, including some that may be completely at odds. These many template-sets would be very simple self-identifying universal labels. For example, CreativeCommons has seven regularly used licenses (I think they should have more, but that's another story) to choose from if you wish to share your content. Why not have simple quick-reference labels like these that can apply to all forums on a collectively standardized set of criteria?

3) You're already collaborating with leftist communities, though not so much the SJWs thankfully. The left exists here on SaidIt, our shared platform. I appreciate much on both sides and generally lean a little left of center but mostly I am a anarcho-voluntaryist.

IMO, it makes more sense to survive by being smart, collaborating to conserve, fortify what we share in common, and agree to disagree on the minor trivialities under the Zionist corporatocracy oppression (which includes the GOP, NeoCons, Christian Zionists, etc) as capitalism and communism merge into global totalitarianism.

To tolerate them on the platform means you would all need to have common ground rules and the bills paid. That's what I mean by collaboration. That's also #4).

5) If we can make the template-sets to categorize feeds/forums/platforms, then I think we can also make tag-labels for content and/or users that we can filter out. I've outlined this several times before but here are some tag-labels:

  1. site and instance owner(s)
  2. administrators
  3. moderating trusted-team
  4. active non-partisan users
  5. centrist users
  6. right-leaning users
  7. left-leaning users
  8. alt-right users
  9. far-left users
  10. rare users and lurkers
  11. STABs (shills, trolls, and bots)
  12. banned asstrolls (their filtered content remains uncensored on the record)

Turn on and off the filters as you like. There's be no more need for censorship. Obviously we could rework this and/or other lists until sets of standard filter options exist.

At present this is just a vapourware idea that would require serious coding effort.

At present there's no leadership for SaidIt. I'm not going to tell you I'm better. However, I'm proposing we develop better fair systems so that it's not all on one flakey dude. With the fundamental foundation that things be fair, open, accountable, consistent, and honest we can build upon that. Anything that violates that fundamental should be shunned. There will be ups and downs and ebbs and flows but a transparent process can only be better. In time the normies will find us.

/u/Dinosaurysus also wisely stated:

" And we should have representatives talk about it, advertise, drum up support. We don't have enough people here but most of us aren't just on Saidit. We'd need some kind of promo package so everyone isn't doing it ad hoc. "

He summarized in a nutshell our ideal forum policy: janitorial rather than editorial and opinion moderation - to just clean up junk without policing.

[–]Dragonerne 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (12 children)

The left exists here on SaidIt

Just so we're clear. You are not a leftist from my perspective.

IMO, it makes more sense to survive by being smart, collaborating to conserve, fortify what we share in common, and agree to disagree on the minor trivialities under the Zionist corporatocracy oppression (which includes the GOP, NeoCons, Christian Zionists, etc) as capitalism and communism merge into global totalitarianism.

I don't know what you mean by this but I cannot collaborate with leftists who wants to silence me.

At present there's no leadership for SaidIt.

There is leadership. It is garbage but it is currently silencing s/DAR from s/all This is what I mean by admins shouldn't have that kind of power over communities. It was the same failure for reddit. Admins destroyed the alt right through censorship, not the moderators. Your tag ideas are good but might need some work, but I think it is moving in the right direction.

Remove admin power.

[–]JasonCarswell[S] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (11 children)

Just so we're clear. You are not a leftist from my perspective.

That's good. I don't consider myself left. I'm voluntarist and don't buy into the left-right paradigm. I used to be left-ish and still consider myself old-left true-progressive (like Jimmy Dore) on many things (very different than SJW fake-progressives and Dems). I like the Green and Libertarian parties, if I must choose to protest vote against the dominant establishment.

I don't know what you mean by this but I cannot collaborate with leftists who wants to silence me.

Can you pay rent in the same building as leftists? Same thing.

Anyone who wants on the platform I help make will be there for free-thought. That means rational discourse without censorship. Juvenile free speech idiots and STABs will be kicked off/censored until we can build filters so no one will need to be censored other than criminals (breaking laws). Essentially just like SaidIt, except that issues will be dealt with by a trusted-team instead of by one admin in secret. People will have the freedom to ask for others to be silenced all they want but no one will be silenced in silence without a fair hearing. The irrational may waste their breath calling for silencing and if they waste our time may be dealt with or filtered.

There is leadership. It is garbage but it is currently silencing s/DAR from s/all

The community is limited not silenced.

Admins destroyed the alt right through censorship, not the moderators.

This will not end. In a way it's a good thing. It's forcing us to find decentralized alternatives. The idea that everyone can host their own instance free of the corporatocracy cloud is the end goal. Not everyone will want to host edgy, fringe, or political content - yet some will be free to.

Remove admin power.

IFIFY: Remove centralized power.

[–]Dragonerne 3 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 3 fun -  (10 children)

People will have the freedom to ask for others to be silenced all they want but no one will be silenced in silence without a fair hearing.

It is not a platform for me then. "fair hearing" I've heard enough of this type of language. Not interested in this platform, but good luck.

[–]JasonCarswell[S] 2 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 3 fun -  (9 children)

An open fair hearing with my trusted-team is not perfect but it's better than an arbitrary judgement from some secretive dictator with an ego.

Better than you coming to my platform would be for all of us to build our own decentralized platforms and federate them. You decide what you want on your server, with or without your own trusted-team, and I decide what I want on mine, etc. We can share the stuff we have in common and omit the unwanted. That's how the federation works.

The SJWs take it to an entirely different level (even more extreme than your intolerance) and have cleaved the Mastodon federation with cancel culture. I'm not sure if there can ever be any solution to this, and if Lemmy doesn't interact with Lenny then it's essentially the same thing. Regardless, getting decentralized is critically important and figuring out how to resolve intolerance division is of secondary concern. (For fuck sakes, if they can make an advanced FLOSS app like Blender, then we can surely build some decent filters in a forum with some decent database analysis that doesn't just serve the deep state surveillance and control system.)

It all has to start somewhere. I suspect this project would work even better if there were a few of us that were co-starting our own servers. We can consult each other and help get things running, tweak the software, etc.

The left already has Lemmy (including censorship of some words). Centrists and the right (and non-SJW left) folks need to embrace Lenny (uncensored) or be left floundering when they (ICAAN) start taking down centralized Internet sites.

[–]Dragonerne 4 insightful - 3 fun4 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 3 fun -  (8 children)

If there is an authority, then the project is not for me.

[–]JasonCarswell[S] 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (7 children)

I don't like "authority" at all either. But I also won't have STABs (shills, trolls, and bots) on my server. How can that happen without someone being the "authority".

Offer a better solution.

[–]Dragonerne 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (6 children)

I liked your tag suggestion. Users could choose their own moderators/admins.

[–]JasonCarswell[S] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (5 children)

That's a novel interesting twist.

If I understand you correctly:
If you choose your own "leader(s)" then you are held responsible to them and their standards. If there's a greater problem with one or more individuals under their supervision then the problematic individual(s) and leaders in question might be held accountable (whatever that means) and the other folks under their supervision may need to find new moderators.

I don't like hierarchy but recognize it's often necessary. I don't like my terms here. Leader, mentor, supervisor, etc. I could spend forever trying to find alternative terms to adopt but I don't care that much. I just wish everyone could behave civilly without need for any of this.