all 26 comments

[–]kt0998 5 insightful - 3 fun5 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 3 fun -  (26 children)

I've never thought about the turning red thing but you are probably right. That's definitely the kind of thing men get off on. I think black women compared to whites are more athletic or curvy built (depending on woman) and men love frailty in women, for the same reason. Basically everything men prefer in women boils down to "easy to abuse and control", oh and also the pedo angle since they also like women to be as child-like as possible. Black feminists always talk about how rejecting femininity is "white feminism" because black women were never seen as feminine and "protected" and it just shows that most women, even those who identify as feminist, want to be submissive and taken care of by big strong men.In general any woman who is jealous about other women getting more attention from men is just a pickme, even if she uses feminist language to hide it.

[–]lurkergirl 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (25 children)

Why are you pessimistic about women? You live in Scandinavia, you said - It's perfection, or at least close to it. And I'm not talking about the men. Scandinavian women are the opposite of a submissive slave-like doormat. Especially in countries like Netherlands and Iceland, women are assertive and live for themselves, not some daddydom.

I've never been to those countries or met their women, I'm asking you based on their reputation. They have a reputation for being how I describe. You do live there?

Also, what do you think of the Iroquois, the Mosuo, etc. For example, the tribes Marx and Engels refer to their book Origin of family. Weren't they plenty dominant? Why do you think women are hardwired to be submissive, to like submitting, etc.

EDIT: I don't mean to sound dumb. What I'm asking is, why is a Scandinavian woman taking the BlackPill? You've written comments on how it's better for women, but it's for me it's also hard to miss the women living there are simply better. They don't just have a reputation for being richer, they're unromantic, they're equals. How can you live with them and say, "Most women are slaves, they want to be slaves, etc. "

[–]kt0998 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (24 children)

Yes, I am Scandinavian. Scandinavia is probably best and most equal place in the world for women. But women and men are still fundamentally the same here as anywhere. When I grew up, my mother did all the chores at house and raising us, even when she was working. I've never seen a family where these duties are split truly equally. I'm not going to list all the things that show we are still male supremacist society but my whole life I've watched women I know letting men walk all over them and being seemingly content with this. In some ways Scandinavian women are worse than women in other places because we probably have the most naive libfem women in the world because the society here can be like one big "safe space" from any unpleasant truths. Men are just as porn sick and media extremely porn-saturated. Scandinavian men are miserable and bitter about being so "emasculated" compared to men in other places and the dynamics between men and women are very passive aggressive and contrived because ultimately almost everyone wants some level of male dominance and female submission in their relationship despite of what the society says. The biggest difference between Scandinavia and less equal countries is that women here are economically more independent, but emotionally and psychologically the underlying dynamics are the same.

I'm not familiar with the Marxist anthropology stuff except from what I've seen it being critically referenced, from my understanding those theories are not taken seriously by modern scientists. I read one book recently about Aborginal Australians that commented on the marxist interpretation of those cultures and the writer believed they were based on early European misinformation about the Aboriginal family structures (Lindqvist's Terra Nullius). I personally do not believe these claims about utopian egalitarian/matriarchal societies because the research is always some white academic imposing their own ideals/politics onto people who have no way to voice their own views. Mosuo for example are called "matriarchy" but from reading about them, it seems like the women do most of the work, marriage doesn't exist and property passes from mother to daughter while men have political power. So it sounds like better place for a woman than some Han-chinese village, but it's also telling that women are the ones doing all the work, while in patriarchal societies women are also used as work horses. It sounds more like men are pretty useless there, not doing much work, not being involved with their children. Another problem is that these societies are always very limited in size and complexity, which means that what applies to them doesn't necessarily apply to large, complex societies. Small hunter gatherer style societies or even primitive agricultural villages can be more egalitarian simply because they haven't reached specialization stage (when people begin to split into professions, classes, castes etc) and need to be more flexible to survive. But once society reaches certain size, it starts to evolve toward the kind of rigidly patriarchal class society that we have seen emerged everywhere in the world.

[–]lurkergirl 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (16 children)

At least explain how relationship dynamics in Scandinavia are passive aggressive and contrived.

[–]kt0998 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (15 children)

I'm not sure what you want to hear? If you believe that Scandinavia has no sexism and gender roles then you're not blackpilled because BP is about recognizing that these things are biological and universal. The passive aggressiveness comes from not being able to openly be sexist, so men are frustrated about it and resent feminism (big MRA culture online), and women complain all the time about how men here aren't "real men", this is also why scandi women like foreigners like those from Middle-East who are more "masculine" (read: dominant and sexist) and scandi men get a lot of wives from Thailand and Russia. It's obvious that people here pretend to be very progressive but in practice women still do most housework, we have less women in STEM than less progressive countries, men are all porn addicts etc. But if you don't believe it, just move here and marry a scandi man, then you wont have to ever deal with sexism.

[–]lurkergirl 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

That's the kind of example I wanted to hear. I didn't know until you told me that Scandi women think their men aren't manly enough, or that Scandi men had a big online MRA culture. I also didn't know they married outsiders so much to satisfy the need for patriarchal relations. You're the first person to tell me these needs even exist. Every source I have, the internet, my friends, etc. claim the Nordic countries are absolute perfection, so I need concrete examples of facts like this to believe you over them.

[–]kt0998 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

Ok. Yeah, internet is full of very idealized views about Nordic countries, not even just about gender equality but everything else too. I grew up poor there and the welfare and free healthcare/education helps a lot, but being poor white trash in Scandinavia is not that different from being poor white trash somewhere else. And gender relationships are built on the same biological basis everywhere.

[–]bbbarbican 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

Scandinavian countries have the best PR in the world honestly. Their marketing strategy is very effective: look at us we are so enlightened! Don't you know we all descend from the Vikings who were super progressive (sure, Jan) and basically huge feminists and we are some sort of feminist heaven where women have a ton of power and men and women's relationships are totes equal. Oh and we have fjords too so come visit us!

[–]bbbarbican 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

to add: the Dutch pull that same sort of 'enlightened' shit Always banging on about the fact that everything is legal in their country and it's no big deal because people are chill: pot, prostitution, gay marriage. We are sooo advanced!! the Red Light district in Amsterdam is so cool you guys! Been there many times (I live close by) and while it's indeed a beautiful country, the Dutch are not as 'chill' as they claim and liberalism is their religion, not any kind of actual 'progress' (whatever that means)

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (10 children)

This is so sad tbh

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

but it's also telling that women are the ones doing all the work, while in patriarchal societies women are also used as work horses. It sounds more like men are pretty useless there, not doing much work, not being involved with their children

Exactly. I am no fan of Matriarchy or Patriarchy. In the former, men get to laze around while women do pretty much everything. Women are solely responsible for the kids and a woman's value lies in her being a mother. The same is seen in Patriarchy except that here that women are mostly forced into burden whereas in a matriarchy, women freely let men do nothing. Both are shit for women who wish to be emancipated. So feminists glorifying matriarchy are just naive or wish the namesake superiority which ends up burdening women more and letting men free.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Thank you for sharing! I am a little short on time now but I will sure read it when I get time. Glad to know there are feminist critiques of both matriarchy and patriarchy.

[–]bbbarbican 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

yeah she's right: as a lesbian, no way am I taking care of het women's brats. But of course that's the only role I would have in this matriarchal fantasy. Unfortunately (and while I find her blog interesting and agree with many of her points) I suspect the author is a polilez and that turns me right off.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

"I suspect the author is a polilez and that turns me right off." Fair point sis

[–]Airbus320 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)


[–]lurkergirl 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

"I'm not going to list all the things that show we are still male supremacist society but my whole life I've watched women I know letting men walk all over them and being seemingly content with this."

List those things. Take weeks to respond if you'd like to. I can buy it, but I need examples. This goes against what my friends say about Holland, Finland, etc. They're tourists and you're a native, so I'm willing to believe you over them if you have convincing examples.

You're basically saying Nordic women are financially independent but emotionally depend on men.