How can we convince more bisexuals to care about homophobia?

submitted by usehername from (self.Bisexuals)

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[–][deleted]  (8 children)

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    [–]MarkJefferson 7 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 2 fun -  (4 children)

    It was, but here is a more specific one. Perhaps you couldn't tell, but I was being hyperbolic when I said "30".

    Perhaps. Could you please be a little less so in the future because it may mislead anyone who reads it and gives a certain acutely negative impression of bisexuals when it's stated so matter-of-factly without any mitigating qualifiers. Suppose someone talked in this hyperbolic manner about homosexuals(I mean many people already do mainly based on knee-jerk reactions to mainstream Gay culture so maybe you can understand how this kind of rhetoric can be rather caustic to the public perception of us in addition to them)?

    I don't have a source on the exact number of guys who feel the urge to rape a gay guy when he comes out in Afghanistan.

    How about evidence for whether they are Bi or Gay- or the victim was Bi or Gay, because accusations of performing certain "homosexual" acts(oral, bottoming) rarely if ever take into account actual sexual orientation when it comes to males.

    My point was that bisexuals greatly outnumber gays. In this case, the gay man was raped by two other men:

    It sounds more like you're suggesting that Bi men are the natural perpetrators in these kind of incidences because they outnumber gay men and are more closeted(and by how much for both?), which is a different claim that doesn't necessarily follow from those two premises.

    Some more examples in Afghanistan include the tradition of Bachi Bazi boys. Bi men will keep young gay boys as sex slaves.

    Once again, how did you find out whether the boys or the men are gay or bi(do they even distinguish between the two)? Or whether it's simply some sort of paraphilia(pedophilia) that has developed in this particular culture that isn't specific to any sexual orientation(including straight men)? According to this article, the feminine boys involved are likely to have been a sexual substitute for women and would be rejected after they hit puberty and actually started looking like men. Does the latter part of that sound particularly SSA?

    I think you're taking issue with the fact that I said "bi men" here. I know you're a bi man, and I don't think you're a psychotic, homophobic rapist.

    Yes, I know; Don't worry. I'm somewhat more interested in whether you can back up the assumptions being made of bi's and gays as it relates to sexual assault in lieu of the evidence that has not yet, to my satisfaction at least, been shown here.

    I'm just saying that bi men are extremely common and in homophobic countries

    How common? I think bisexuals spawn evenly everywhere and don't necessarily gather more in homophobic countries to victimize gays.

    men who are bi will use rape as an instrument of punishment against men who are gay in a situation where a straight man would simply give him a beating.

    I have read quickly through it, but is this conclusion or at least implication in the last link you provided? And where?

    Anyway, I'm still reeling from the first sentence which has unfortunately somewhat blurred anything reasonable you have typed after that; Sorry. Well, you got my attention anyway lol

    I'll give my thoughts to solving the closeting issue later.

    [–]lespyro 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

    You were linked to an article of roaming gangs of rapists who rape gay people and identify as heterosexuals. This happens all the time, in all countries and your only response seems to be "oh me oh my. im reeling from the offence". You're not exactly doing a good job maintaining the steel cold analyst persona of incessantly asking for links and then denying the reality of how internalized homophobia works because you didnt like the tone and implications.

    Go on the bi subs and they'll explain the process of dehumanization for you. That internalized homophobia degrades their same sex attraction to some animalistic, hateful urge that's tied to their arousal and used more as a weapon of violence than anything else. Then they become so dehumanized due to their internalized homophobia that they lose any ability to form an emotional or romantic bond with whomever theyre with. In fact, there's a feedback loop of hatred and disgust. These people even called themselves "hetero romantic" and turned their psychological trauma into some sort of valid type of species because apparently, we're all "valid". Just because these people dont have our systems of thought, doesnt mean they dont experience same sex attraction. Or are you going to tell me the roaming gangs of men finding gays to rape are straight men because they just choose to identify that way.

    [–]usehername[S] 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

    I have a quick question for you before I type out a comprehensive response. What can we infer is the sexuality of a man who rapes a gay man in order to "punish" him, but has a wife and kids at home?

    [–]PenseePansy 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

    What can we infer is the sexuality of a man who rapes a gay man in order to "punish" him, but has a wife and kids at home?

    Not much, in a culture where opposite-sex marriage is obligatory, and when rape-- especially of this kind (i.e., an overtly-hostile act)-- need have nothing to do with sexual attraction. Are all-- or even most-- of the men who rape other men in prison bi (or gay, for that matter)? I doubt it. Similarly, many men rape women to whom they are not sexually-attracted. So that X rapes Y is no proof that X is attracted to Y, or to anyone of Y's sex. In many cases, I think, rape pretty much comes down to bullying using sex.

    [–]PenseePansy 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

    Some more examples in Afghanistan include the tradition of Bachi Bazi boys. Bi men will keep young gay boys as sex slaves.

    I doubt that the boys' sexual orientation is much of a factor (especially since they're often too young for it to have even emerged yet).

    And why would bisexuals be particularly well-represented among the men who prey upon them? I'd assume that they'd be like the average child-molester everywhere: a man who is attracted to women, girls, and boys... but not men. So he loses interest in boys as soon as they start to resemble adults. That sure doesn't sound very "bisexual" to me.

    [–]lespyro 3 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

    Judging by your other comments, you seem to be completely unaware of what homophobia is since you spout a lot of queer theory. "monosexism" lol

    In all cultures, including our own western one before we essentialized identities, there were only normal people vs gay. In cultures up to this day, bisexual men are considered completely normal in places where it's ok to murder homosexuals. And you dont seem to appreciate what internalized homophobia does to someone's same sex attraction. I think you've heard the term "hetero romantic", meaning "i can have degrading, fetishistic, hateful and violent sex towards the same sex but the thought of forming an emotional or romantic bond with them would make me hurl". Where exactly do you think this comes from?

    The article listed shows a bunch of men all coming together to rape a homosexual who was found to be gay. In that part of the world, that's considered normal. It doesnt even cross their minds that what they did was the slightest bit connected to homosexuality. Then they go back to their wives and kids. Those are bisexuals. and theyre pushing their idea of heterosexual supremacy onto gays and themselves. This isnt unique to their culture. How many bi people do you know that are like this? Because theyre the overwhelming majority.

    As for the bachi bazi boys, if you watched the documentary, they have their pick of the litter and the victims are always the most feminine, "softest", and effeminate gay kids. Let's not pretend you cant spot a gay boy from a mile away. The overwhelming majority of the kids they get are the gay ones. Their rationale is: "well, youre feminine so you're basically asking for it even though you're 9". It's the same rationale they use for grooming women. It doesnt help that they use these gay kids as a substitute for the girls they prefer. So yes, the men are bi.

    You seem more concerned with having a sort of twitter identity of complaining about what a victim you are rather than dismantling the systems that harm gays and lesbians and the bisexuals who are harmed by perpetuating these systems as well.