How can we convince more bisexuals to care about homophobia?

submitted by usehername from self.Bisexuals

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[–]MarkJefferson 8 insightful - 2 fun8 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 2 fun -  (11 children)

Like I said in an earlier post, if a gay guy is "found out" in Afghanistan, 30 bi guys line up to rape him.

Can I get a source on this?

[–]usehername[S] 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (10 children)

https://www.businessinsider.com/gay-man-raped-and-beaten-by-taliban-tricked-into-meeting-2021-9?op=1

It's well-known that gay men in extremely homophobic communities are often raped by homophobic bi men, but the rapists are not gay so it's acceptable because it's like they're punishing him for being gay. So even though the rapist enjoys it, it's not "gay" because it's extremely hateful and violent and the guy has a wife and kids at home.

[–]MarkJefferson 7 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 2 fun -  (9 children)

Like I said in an earlier post, if a gay guy is "found out" in Afghanistan, 30 bi guys line up to rape him.

It's not in the linked article.

It's well-known that gay men in extremely homophobic communities are often raped by homophobic bi men

Can I get a source for this claim in addition to the first?

[–][deleted] 6 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 2 fun -  (4 children)

Bisexuals should care about homophobia because it affects us, we're often judged as halfway straight or gay.

But I also think we should focus on building our own community, and championing that bisexuality is different than homosexuality and still just as OK. Demonstrating that there are different sexualities can help bi people come out of the closet because they aren't forced to choose between hetero and homo. We all need to understand there's nothing wrong with being hetero or homo, while also accepting that we are not either of them, which is OK also.

[–]usehername[S] 3 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 3 fun -  (3 children)

Well bisexuals shouldn't just care about homophobia because it affects us. We have the numbers and should be defending homosexuals who built the structures that allow bisexuals to come out at all instead of pretending we're straight with our whole lives.

I'm not going to say that I don't support strong bisexual communities, but honestly, I think that bisexuals may be in the majority (rivaling heterosexuals) so I think that may be futile.

Like you said, it's very important to make it clear exactly what bisexuality is and how it's different from being homosexual or heterosexual, but confusion isn't the biggest hurdle bi people have to overcome when trying to accept themselves and come out. The biggest hurdle is homophobia, so I think that's what we should focus on.

[–][deleted] 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

I disagree, I think it's bisexual erasure to encourage us to focus on other sexualities, especially in this sub which for us and our needs. We should get our own house in order before we support or help anyone else.

[–]usehername[S] 5 insightful - 3 fun5 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 3 fun -  (1 child)

And what exactly are our needs? The biggest obstacle is homophobia. Acknowledging that isn't "bisexual erasure". Or do you particularly take issue with when I said we should support homosexuals as their allies? We only have way more power than them and acceptance in society. But you think we should just take the infrastructure they built and colonize it for ourselves? We can't put the toothpaste back in the tube. They've already built this and it's our foundation for acceptance as same-sex attracted people. It's impossible to start from scratch and "get our own house".

[–][deleted] 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

I agree that ONE of our obstacles is homophobia, but I don't think it's THE obstacle or necessarily the biggest. I acknowledge that we have other issues to focus on as well. A couple examples:

  • Xenophobia within the lesbian and gay communities which acts as bisexual erasure - some members consider bisexuals "on the fence" or not "choosing a side"
  • Judgement of our personal character due to being bisexual - inability to be satisfied or always open to non-monogamy are common views
  • Rapists of the same sex, who normally partner with the opposite, are viewed as bi - it's the old "suck one dick and you're gay" joke repackaged against bisexuals. It ignores the power and structural aspects of sexual assault and places the blame on sexuality

But you think we should just take the infrastructure they built and colonize it for ourselves?

Not at all, I never said anything of the sort. I think we should appreciate and support G&Ls hard work, and also learn from their foundation and guidance. We can build a collaborating sister/brother infrastructure which is distinct for ourselves, without erasing them or us.

It's impossible to start from scratch and "get our own house".

That's very defeatist.

[–]PenseePansy 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

While I agree that homophobia is a threat to bisexuals, I do NOT agree that it's the main one, nor that bisexuals are doing little to counter it.

LGB spaces always have a substantial bi contingent, and our primary focus there is, invariably, opposition to homophobia. This makes some sense, as it's an issue that affects bi and gay people alike. However, what I never see is any collective concern about, much less taking action against, BIphobia. And THAT, I'm convinced, is Public Enemy #1 for bisexuals.

Why? Well, first, because we're only vulnerable to ONE aspect of homophobia: its stigmatization of same-sex attraction. That's what we share with gay people. What we DON'T share is the other aspect: stigmatization of the LACK of opposite-sex attraction.

But you know what affects us full-force, 100% of the time? Biphobia. Which I would define this way: not recognizing bisexuality as a sexual orientation at all. So that neither it, nor we, really exist. Meaning that bisexuals are actually phonies, deluded, liars, sexually-indiscriminate, etc. In other words: we're just straight or gay people. Usually "bad" ones, sometimes "good" ones a la the Noble Savage/Magical Negro-- more open-minded/evolved/enlightened (so that we should love/fuck EVERYONE, like some slutty Jesus!)-- but never, ever ourselves.

Basically, this all comes down to monosexism. Which is to say: the assumption that sexual orientation itself can only be monosexual. This is the default attitude, not only among heterosexuals, but also homosexuals (who are if anything even more vehement about it, what with forever having to defend the exclusiveness of their own sexual attraction)... and, all too often, bisexuals. Causing us not to even recognize ourselves as BEING bisexual, think bisexuality is something other than a sexual orientation, and/or remain closeted. Because who's gonna come out when no one will believe you? Including GAY people? And you'll have to do a fucking PowerPoint presentation every time? All on your own, without any backup?

THAT, I think, is the real issue here. Not that bisexuals don't care about homophobia (those of us who identify with LGB are pretty vocal about it); not homophobia itself; not bisexuals posing a problem to homosexuals (the reverse is at least as true, given that we tend to have their back without them returning the favor). For us, the main threat is biphobia. Particularly due to the fact that: 1.] gay people are, for the most part, unconcerned about it; and 2.] we don't really have any movement/organization of our own to address it.

TL;DR: for bisexuals, the main problem isn't homophobia-- it's biphobia. And while we often DO care about homophobia, gay people rarely care about biphobia (same goes for straight people). Until there's a real awareness of, and effort to counter, biphobia, many bi people won't come out (since it often keeps us from realizing that we ARE bi, or being believed/understood when we tell others).

[–]nosympathy 9 insightful - 2 fun9 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Really, monosexism? What's up with these made up words a la queer theory? Next we'll be talking about how the mspecs needs to fight the heteropatriarchy to destroy cissexism.

Which I would define this way: not recognizing bisexuality as a sexual orientation at all.

In a broad sense, not even homosexuality is recognized as a sexual orientation. In fact, the concept of sexual orientation is not accepted or understood at all. Many still believe and perpetuate that homosexual attraction is some type of perversion, fetish or simply a consequence of maladaptive sexual development. As in, SSA people are only SSA because they suffered sexual trauma, because they were "recruited" (molested), daddy issues or whatever else. To most, there are no "valid" sexual orientations; there are normal people, and people that are sexually fucked up.

You seem to overestimate the acceptance of homosexuality. Many people, if they are accepting at all, will argue that is because "those poor things, they can't help it! Unfortunately they were born this way" (this way meaning "wrong"). So yeah, I admit that there is a bias against bisexual people in the sense that we are perceived as having a choice. "If you can like either, why are you choosing the bad option?? There must be really something wrong with you!!". To be fair, bi people will often exercise that choice. They stay closeted to avoid being seen as one of the "fucked up ones". You can't really think that the biggest stigma for bi people is not their admission of being SSA, but actually liking both sexes at the same time?? You probably live in a pretty privileged area. Which is fine, good for you, but your experiences are not universal.

gay people, for the most part, couldn't care less

This is such an unnecessarily overgeneralizing statement. What if I said that bisexual people couldn't care less about gay people's specific struggles? You really created this little story in your mind, and you even named it, were the evil gays ally with the straights to put down the bisexuals and cause most of their problems. Where, if you looked closely, most of gay people's so called "aversion to bisexuals" are them just trying to get away from heterosexuality altogether, which they have the right to do so. If I made up a stupid term, called "opposite-sexism", defined as the "non recognition of lack of opposite-sex attraction as something valid", would you then be willing to understand the negative view they might have of us?

not bisexuals posing a problem to homosexuals (the reverse is at least as true, given that we tend to have their back without them returning the favor)

You did not just completely ignored the queer/TQ+, "actually I think everyone is bisexual" crowd. And how many gay people bend over to spout the same bullshit even though it harms them. So much for having their backs. But of course, "those probably aren't even REAL bisexuals!!" or something. My point is, in both cases, both the "bisexuality isn't real" and the "homosexuality isn't real" are isolated cases that don't reflect the bigger picture that we are dealing with in the real world.

LGB fight together to end the stigma against same sex attraction. There only is "biphobia" because there is no acceptance of homosexuality. Because being same sex attracted makes someone be seen as lesser. Straight people want you to "pick a side" as long as it's the right one. Gay people want you to "pick a side" because either a) they think you are forcing yourself to be OSA as they might have done to themselves or b) they feel deeply insecure about your existence as someone that is just like them, but also has the option to not be seen as lesser for not being OSA (which are both them dealing with homophobia). They only deal with homophobia because there is no acceptance of homosexuality. So on and so forth.