The Original UBI by Orangutan in BasicIncome

[–]MythOfPrivilege 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

And even as a child I saw that and thought "Why does everyone get $200 just for passing a square?"

GIMMIE GIMMIE MONEY MONEY I NEED SHEKELS FOR TENDIEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEESSSSS by yabbit in BasicIncome

[–]magnora7 3 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

This is a spam thread. Do not post spam threads that contain worthless content. It appears you are deliberately trying to make a mess of this forum which is not allowed. You posted several posts like this in the last day. This is your final warning, spamming absolute nonsense to degrade the quality of this forum is against saidit rules. If you choose to do this again I will ban your account permanently.

Prescriptions may get filled by the bright, yellow arms of a robot. Walgreens is planning to open automated, robot-powered fulfillment centers across the U.S. to aid in processing prescriptions. It will open 22 centers serving more than 8,500 of its nearly 9,000 U.S. stores over the next three years by Orangutan in BasicIncome

[–]IkeConn 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Just wait until the minimum wage 16 year old new guy loads up the wrong pills in the wrong hopper and kills a couple hundred people just so Walgreens can fire all their pharmacy employees.

Prescriptions may get filled by the bright, yellow arms of a robot. Walgreens is planning to open automated, robot-powered fulfillment centers across the U.S. to aid in processing prescriptions. It will open 22 centers serving more than 8,500 of its nearly 9,000 U.S. stores over the next three years by Orangutan in BasicIncome

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

And about 20000 "pawns" loose their jobs in this process while the rich psychopaths fill their deep pockets even more.

Mark Cuban finally getting around and understanding UBI! by Orangutan in BasicIncome

[–][deleted] 4 insightful - 3 fun4 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

capitalists and socialists both worry too much about people being lazy and not working. Who cares, cuz of technology we don't need to work anymore. I get we don't want people to be decadent and do sinful things but maybe it's not our business.

Is $2000 A Month COVID-Relief UBI Better? (19:57) ~ Kim Iversen by JasonCarswell in BasicIncome

[–]Zaphod42 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Thanks! That’s a lot of good points and I had to re-read to try to grasp everything. I looked at a few of your other posts and found a lot of it very ... interesting. I’ll keep reading and thanks for sharing!

Is $2000 A Month COVID-Relief UBI Better? (19:57) ~ Kim Iversen by JasonCarswell in BasicIncome

[–]JasonCarswell[S] 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

I completely agree!

I also realize many folks don't have much potential. Half of everyone is stupider than average, and most of the rest are really fucking close to average - and those who stand out only have their limited fields of expertise... and are otherwise generally average. Regardless, /s/memes/comments/4ce8/if_there_is_a_minimum_wage/ and we need more fairness.

I was fit as fuck, had my dream girl, and was an animation and live action director in Oakland then moved to Victoria and Vancouver. I missed all my friends and that life and in 2008 things were hard with the crash, etc. I got on some "anti"-depressants and within 3 months I tried to die. I lost everything, my lady, my shit, etc. got on welfare and spent 4.5 years getting worse on their poison and my blind faith in Scientism. I've been on welfare since, crawling out of that pit, slowly, not making a difference month to month, but 6 month to 6 months improvements were noticeable. I'm back to about 90% mentally but physically and financially I'm fucked. Regardless I've got ambitions again and feel productive even if all I'm doing it contributing to SaidIt, WikiSpooks, and writing my epic comeback on InfoGalactic. I don't do games and have no interest in Hollywood's poorly written propaganda anymore. I'm making nothing financially so far, but I know I'm a contributor, even if not in the way "they" want.

This is low energy but the content gets excellent: /s/Coronavirus/comments/4bxk/global_capitalism_corona_and_capitalism/

I'd like to see worker cooperatives promoted, but there's a reason the totalitarian corporatocracy keeps that solution out of the MSM.

To your query - I'd be very happy if they gave out free money with the stipulation that you form a worker coop with it. Small or large, however you want to arrange it. Imagine if everyone could start their own co-businesses? They might also need to classify the co-ops to maximize efficiency. For example, one worker might have special needs - disability, age, mental health, etc. so either the rest have to pull their weight or that person can join another coop at another level which might also aid them in whatever needs they have. In this way you might have countless of "unsuitable" workers in traditional enterprises actually contributing when they would be abandoned, not to mention feeling fulfilled.

But that's a pipe dream because their corrupt unfair system is not rigged to handle such fairness and compassion.

I just realized I didn't answer their question.

1) Ask them what they would do with extra money? Would they stop working? Or improve their lives and ambitions?

2) Ask them why they give a shit about all the "low life" scammers when it's proven that white-collar crime is PROFOUNDLY worse for all of humanity. Worry up not down. Punch up at elites, don't kick those in need. The true threat is from above. If your girlfriend lied and cheated as much at the government and media you'd kick her ass out!

3) Again, if there's a minimum wage, why isn't there a maximum wage?

4) I'm too tired to think of 4.

Is $2000 A Month COVID-Relief UBI Better? (19:57) ~ Kim Iversen by JasonCarswell in BasicIncome

[–]Zaphod42 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

So how do I argue against those that say handing out free money will just make everyone lazy? (I personally believe it will allow most to fulfill their potential.)

But the U.S. is also the only rich country in the world where the mortality rate has been going up, not down. Much of that trend is driven by men without college degrees in America’s heartland, according to Brookings. "...and almost 20% of prime aged males are out of the labor force" by Orangutan in BasicIncome

[–]MostlySunnySkies 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

This is the same Brookings Institute that literally petitions for H1-B for itself :

http://www.myvisajobs.com/Visa-Sponsor/The-Brookings-Institution/537309_Visa.htm

and routinely spins the H1-B visa program to the liking of its corporate sponsers:

https://cis.org/Miano/Brookings-Claims-H1B-Demand-Not-Supported-Their-Data

What does this mean? It means when I go home to the small town I am from I find H1-B Visa holders working as cashiers in my local gorcery store. That would be the very jobs the 20% of unemployed men who are killing themselves could have worked at.

Brookings is also a big lover of outsourcing: https://www.brookings.edu/research/offshoring-service-jobs-bane-or-boon-and-what-to-do/

Businesses that outsource in the global economy can boost productivity and wages—if the outsourcing is driven by market forces, not by a need to game costly laws and lawsuits. But legal and regulatory considerations, not just a quest for cheap labor, sometimes do influence the sourcing patterns of firms, including their contracts with offshore suppliers. Because this process can be inefficient, policymakers need to address it. But pleas for better “corporate citizenship” are no substitute for fundamental correction of the nation’s regulatory programs and legal practices.

As if Brookings gives a shit about these regular guys. Good guys. Guys who should be raising families and playing horseshoes and fixing up their cars and going to church and being solid citrizens in every sense of that word. Yeah, Brookings hates those deplorables.

Brookings like every other "think tank" on the left and the right- Cato Institute comes to mind here- is the soft policy arm whose work product is designed to give intellectual cover to whatever its billionaire funders want and what their billionaire funders want is a bunch of dead Americans, to spend the week on their yacht and a whore.

Like the rest of the elites they're happy these guys are killing themselves, they're racist, sexist xenophbes who otherwise would be voting from Trump.

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/fixgov/2019/08/14/trump-and-racism-what-do-the-data-say/

[Repost] We're Living in 12 Monkeys by JasonCarswell in BasicIncome

[–]JasonCarswell[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Reposted:
/s/conspiracy/comments/3j4u/were_living_in_12_monkeys/
/s/OpenScience_Scientism/comments/3jcv/repost_were_living_in_12_monkeys/
/s/BasicIncome/comments/3jd8/repost_were_living_in_12_monkeys/

But the U.S. is also the only rich country in the world where the mortality rate has been going up, not down. Much of that trend is driven by men without college degrees in America’s heartland, according to Brookings. "...and almost 20% of prime aged males are out of the labor force" by Orangutan in BasicIncome

[–]Tom_Bombadil 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The US is at the bottom of the develop nations for infant mortality on the first day of life... :-(

I'm against Basic Income funded by taxation. It's got to be funded by a wealth fund, or else by printing money by Gracehoper in BasicIncome

[–]Robin 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

If you think not about the numbers but about what the numbers mean, you may conclude that printing money amounts to simply a stealthier form of taxation...

The Original UBI by Orangutan in BasicIncome

[–]Tom_Bombadil 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

UBI is the band-aid solution to Monopoly capitalism.

Andrew Yang "Reason Trump Is President Is Because We Automated Away 4 Million Manufacturing Jobs!" by Orangutan in BasicIncome

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

no real concessions, it's same nafta they just slapped a new name on it. reminds me of when Obama when campaigning said he would renegiate nafta, but then some rumors said he had assured Canada he wouldn't and it was just lies for the campaign, this became a conspiracy theory that was denied by establishment dem supporters, but looks like it was true since he never did renegotiate nafta.

Andrew Yang "Reason Trump Is President Is Because We Automated Away 4 Million Manufacturing Jobs!" by Orangutan in BasicIncome

[–]Chipit 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Trump got some concessions. Not much but at least he tried. Bush and Clinton are two sides of the same coin: globalists. They both despise the American people and wish them harm.

Andrew Yang "Reason Trump Is President Is Because We Automated Away 4 Million Manufacturing Jobs!" by Orangutan in BasicIncome

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

signed by bill clinton, but if you were against it were you supposed to vote repub? it was also supported by Poppy Bush.

Trump said he'd renegotiate it, lied.

Andrew Yang "Reason Trump Is President Is Because We Automated Away 4 Million Manufacturing Jobs!" by Orangutan in BasicIncome

[–]Chipit 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Eh, not really. It was Nafta that started it.

The people of North America did not explicitly consent to Nafta. They were never asked to vote on the deal, and its bipartisan support ensured that there was little scope for dissent. The huge grassroots resistance in all three nations was ignored or maligned. The deal was fixed between political and commercial elites, and granted immortality.

That, and admitting China to the WTO. These twin shocks destroyed the American working class. It wasn't some kind of mistake or unexpected outcome. It was the whole idea. Our elites deliberately ruined our little people to enrich hostile countries.

I'm against Basic Income funded by taxation. It's got to be funded by a wealth fund, or else by printing money by Gracehoper in BasicIncome

[–]Tom_Bombadil 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The debt is owed by the citizens.

Private banks issue the money.
The government pays interest on the money that is loaned to it by the Fed.

The profits are private.

The Fed is the greatest scam in history. It charges interest for all money for all of the US wars.

I'm against Basic Income funded by taxation. It's got to be funded by a wealth fund, or else by printing money by Gracehoper in BasicIncome

[–]Gracehoper[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Reserve#Structure

The Federal Reserve System has a "unique structure that is both public and private"[49] and is described as "independent within the government" rather than "independent of government".

The U.S.'s Fed derives its authority from Congress and its Governors are appointed by the U.S. President. Calling it private is misleading.

I'm against Basic Income funded by taxation. It's got to be funded by a wealth fund, or else by printing money by Gracehoper in BasicIncome

[–]Tom_Bombadil 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The US Federal Reserve.

The Bank of England.

Every Western Central Bank is privately owned.

I'm against Basic Income funded by taxation. It's got to be funded by a wealth fund, or else by printing money by Gracehoper in BasicIncome

[–]Gracehoper[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_central_banks

Care to provide an example of a private-sector central bank?

I'm against Basic Income funded by taxation. It's got to be funded by a wealth fund, or else by printing money by Gracehoper in BasicIncome

[–]Tom_Bombadil 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Really???

Care to provide some examples of these public sector banks?

I'm against Basic Income funded by taxation. It's got to be funded by a wealth fund, or else by printing money by Gracehoper in BasicIncome

[–]Gracehoper[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Central banks are privately owned institutions.

No they're not. They're public-sector.

had to be payed back

Most countries never pay off their debt. The United States was debt-free on Jan 8, 1835 and on no other day in its history. Debt is a bogeyman, not something that needs to be realistically worried about in macroeconomic planning.

I'm against Basic Income funded by taxation. It's got to be funded by a wealth fund, or else by printing money by Gracehoper in BasicIncome

[–]Tom_Bombadil 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Central banks are privately owned institutions.

If it's money issued by a central bank, then it's loaned money and had to be payed back by the taxpayer.

If the US ends the federal reserve, then that's a different context.
End the Fed.

I'm against Basic Income funded by taxation. It's got to be funded by a wealth fund, or else by printing money by Gracehoper in BasicIncome

[–]Gracehoper[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I find it a reasonably persuasive idea

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helicopter_money

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/business-35418946/quantitative-easing-for-the-people

http://blogs.reuters.com/anatole-kaletsky/2012/08/01/how-about-quantitative-easing-for-the-people/

I mean, governments/central banks have to issue money somehow, and that has to get into people's hands somehow. The normal way is to issue it via banks that then give loans, but why not cut out the middle man?

I'm against Basic Income funded by taxation. It's got to be funded by a wealth fund, or else by printing money by Gracehoper in BasicIncome

[–]Tom_Bombadil 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Not by priming money! That's the problem that we have now.

Andrew Yang Speaks at National Action Network 2019 Convention: "Things Are Even Worse Than You Think They Are" by Orangutan in BasicIncome

[–]Billy 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

So is he. Listen to anyone on disability and they will tell you how great their "UBI" is. Set places to live, barely enough to eat. Everything will be that much more expensive so the people who don't go along with the socialist rules will be more screwed than they are now. Social credit will be enforced soon after. Denied if you don't take the upcoming 500 mandatory vaccines. Didn't go to your mandatory Muslim prayer? Denied. Social credit to zero, not allowed to do anything. Travel for a new job? Denied. Go to whole foods? Denied, must shop at walmart, only rich people allowed in other sectors, you, district 9.

Why are millennials burned out? Capitalism: Millennials are bearing the brunt of the economic damage wrought by late-20th-century capitalism. All these insecurities — and the material conditions that produced them — have thrown millennials into a state of perpetual panic by Orangutan in BasicIncome

[–]Work2Death 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Millenial here. Not burnt out.... I despise articles that try to make large sweeping generalizations about entire generations... If you're getting burnt out at your job, start looking for a new one. Capitalism also means you have a choice in who you trade your labor with.

Why are millennials burned out? Capitalism: Millennials are bearing the brunt of the economic damage wrought by late-20th-century capitalism. All these insecurities — and the material conditions that produced them — have thrown millennials into a state of perpetual panic by Orangutan in BasicIncome

[–]happysmash27 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

My proposed solution is decriminalising homelessness, and allowing one to live, gather resources and farm on land without needing to pay the government in property tax or banks in mortgages. Without this, however, UBI is one of the best options which doesn't change the land-ownership status-quo.

Edit: You know, I am tired of trying to hitch on to other movements in often divisive ways; I should make this a movement by itself, for all sides.

If you're interested, here are some in-depth interviews with participants of the Ontario Basic Income Pilot by Orangutan in BasicIncome

[–]Alduin 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I sort of skipped ahead about a dozen times, just trying to get the gist of what they were saying. They all wanted more money, being poor sucks, etc. What I wanna know is this - how many of them improved their station in life? They got free money for a few years, so how many of them went to college or learned a trade or got a better job? Was this in the video?

Andrew Yang: "I was invited to meet with Richard Branson, the founder of the Virgin Group, by a friend. Richard is one of the most prominent leaders who has already come out in favor of Universal Basic Income (others include Elon Musk, Mark Zuckerberg, Albert Wenger, and more)." by Orangutan in BasicIncome

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

he's running for prez but I never heard of him, interesting. I like his basic income guarantee idea but him meeting with bankers shows he's not to be trusted

Andrew Yang: "I was invited to meet with Richard Branson, the founder of the Virgin Group, by a friend. Richard is one of the most prominent leaders who has already come out in favor of Universal Basic Income (others include Elon Musk, Mark Zuckerberg, Albert Wenger, and more)." by Orangutan in BasicIncome

[–]Orangutan[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I'm somewhat concerned about the company he is keeping as far as Richard Branson, Elon Musk, Mark Zuckerberg, but I'm unfamiliar with Albert Wenger. I guess any politician trying to genuinely win the presidency has to eventually associate with some the rich and powerful of a society in an effort to help him win.

Andrew Yang: "Well I was at a presentation with the head of the World Bank"

World Bank

Past Presidents of the World Bank parent organization The World Bank Group

Finland's result on its UBI experiment: people don't shirk work. And it increases trust, health & wellbeing by Orangutan in BasicIncome

[–]JasonCarswell 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

That's why they're killing them off slowly with more brainwashing propaganda than ever.

Don't forget to get your very safe and effective vaccination and 5G and low-fat processed food before going to your wage-slave job to keep you in debt rather than organizing and rising up. Also, be sure to hate "them" but never the ruling class.

Finland's result on its UBI experiment: people don't shirk work. And it increases trust, health & wellbeing by Orangutan in BasicIncome

[–]jtriangle 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The last thing you want is the unwashed masses starving to death and getting crazy. It's not altruistic, it's to keep everyone under control.

Finland's result on its UBI experiment: people don't shirk work. And it increases trust, health & wellbeing by Orangutan in BasicIncome

[–]JasonCarswell 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

"Non optional"? You mean they do it or everyone dies of starvation?

They'd rather let folks die than feed them and let them organize, educate themselves and rise up against the great hoarders.

Finland's result on its UBI experiment: people don't shirk work. And it increases trust, health & wellbeing by Orangutan in BasicIncome

[–]JasonCarswell 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Who's going to pay for those robots? The rich would rather keep their money and power and if they built robots it would be for robots that bring them more wealth or services, not robots to serve the poor.

Finland's result on its UBI experiment: people don't shirk work. And it increases trust, health & wellbeing by Orangutan in BasicIncome

[–]jtriangle 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Affording it may be non optional. They're just printing money willy nilly anyway, so they'd be able to sustain it for at least awhile in the US because global markets are so dependant on the dollar. It'd be effectively taxing other countries and paying people with that revenue.

It's unlikely to work long-term though, and we'd probably see a massive move away from the dollar if it ever were to happen.

Finland's result on its UBI experiment: people don't shirk work. And it increases trust, health & wellbeing by Orangutan in BasicIncome

[–]jtriangle 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I think that UBI might be necessary when the robots get good enough to unemploy the bottom 2/3 of the workforce, at least for long enough to re-educate people where it's reasonable.

It flies in the face of my overarching political ideology, I just don't see an easy way out with how things are going with automation. The age we're headed into is without precedence.

Finland's result on its UBI experiment: people don't shirk work. And it increases trust, health & wellbeing by Orangutan in BasicIncome

[–]Vigte 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Exactly - it can be "utopian" or a trap - if implemented today by the people in charge, it'll be a damn trap.

Besides, before even considering UBI, (good people) would have to figure out what a dollar is worth anymore, a country needs to accurately get its M0, M1, M2, M3 sorted the fuck out and figure out a replacement for GDP - then it can start implementing policy.

Until then, obligatory

Finland's result on its UBI experiment: people don't shirk work. And it increases trust, health & wellbeing by Orangutan in BasicIncome

[–]JasonCarswell 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yes and No.

UBI needs to be about much more than just markets, economies, employment, etc etc etc. It needs to be a full spectrum system and it needs to be embraced fully and there need to be protections from naysayers and exploitation, not to mention future cut-offs.

UBI needed to be implemented yesterday everywhere on Earth, but it's also potentially a trap.

UBI in the USA is impossible if they can't even "afford" to provide universal health care like every other civilized nation. Shame.

Finland's result on its UBI experiment: people don't shirk work. And it increases trust, health & wellbeing by Orangutan in BasicIncome

[–]Vigte 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Truthfully, I like the idea - I really do - people deserve some help after everything they've been through last 19 years - but it just won't work long-term within the frame work of Darwinian Capitalism.

Lots of articles also talking about how it isn't as great as it seems. There hasn't been enough time to analyze the results, plus the test wasn't long-term enough. Plus the test's publicity and attention may have staved off some of the ill effects - in hopes it happening, let me explain:

In the end the UBI level off at 1$ more than poverty and all the prices will increase, because of a "market flush with cash".

5$ buys you 5, 1$ items.

Suddenly everyone has 6 dollars, an increase of 20%. What are the odds business will hike prices 25% minimum? Quite good I would say - especially for items that people MUST have: food, medicine, etc.

5$, 5, 1$ items 6$, 4, 1.25$ items

As such your 5$ that bought you 5 items, turns into 6$ buying you 4 items.

Now keep in mind this kind of "leap stage" from 5 items to 4, may not occur EVERY "minimum wealth increase" (be it UBI or min. wage increase, etc), but it WILL happen inevitably. Anyone who has seen min-wage increase in their area can attest to this.

Until inflation and unregulated mark up are addressed, this will only lead to more severe exploitation of the population for the profit of "business", just like everything else in this world.

To make it appear good, you probably won't see any of the price increase scam in this experiment (on purpose) - let it become "law" and see how fast that changes, when business is free to fuck you, 21st century style.

I'll eat my own beard if I'm wrong.

Joe Rogan Experience #1245 - Andrew Yang by Orangutan in BasicIncome

[–]Orangutan[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

https://www.yang2020.com/

Preliminary results of the Finnish basic income experiment: self-perceived wellbeing improved, during the first year the employment level has been similar to control group (which has been subject to conditional social security) by Orangutan in BasicIncome

[–]4D-Printer 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I had really hoped that the employment level would have increased, but perhaps that will come. Still a few years left in the experiment.

Preliminary results of the Finnish basic income experiment: self-perceived wellbeing improved, during the first year the employment level has been similar to control group (which has been subject to conditional social security) by Orangutan in BasicIncome

[–]Orangutan[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

You can find the study here(in English)

http://julkaisut.valtioneuvosto.fi/bitstream/handle/10024/161361/Report_The%20Basic%20Income%20Experiment%2020172018%20in%20Finland.pdf?sequence=1&isAllowed=y

Universal Basic Income Is Easier Than It Looks by Orangutan in BasicIncome

[–]JasonCarswell 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

A more appropriate response would have been "Bullshit".

"Get a job" is loaded with all sorts of implications and judgments. Heavily.

My over obvious strawmen were not about the UBI. They were about the commonly unemployed. The jobless. I picked the first easiest targets. I didn't even start down the all the prejudices of our rigged systems against race, mental health, family units, communities, occupied states, outsourcing, NAFTA, China, etc etc etc that make it sooo very difficult for many people to "get a job".

I'm not talking about the article.

What you say about the Fed Rez is true. I already know it.

I was triggered by what seemed like punching down at the unemployed.

Maybe you should watch where you sling those heavy words before trying to be upset with me about whatever you try deflecting to.

Universal Basic Income Is Easier Than It Looks by Orangutan in BasicIncome

[–]thajuggla 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

My response was to the title of "universal basic income is easier than it looks." It's actually not, if we want to debate the intricacies of what's wrong in our world, then by all means, let's get to it, but simply stating the title will be met with a simple "get a job" response from me.

Nice straw man, going right to disabled people. The title, nor the article mentioned anything involving disabled people, nor does it mention what to do with regards to pensions.

The article mentions trillion dollar coins, really?!? Check out how Zimbabwe did with regards to issuing more money, they have trillion dollar notes. It's worked well for them. Then the article goes into talking about debt, what would trillion dollar coins be, debt free?

Each and every Federal Reserve note is created on the basis of the treasury paying it back on interest, which means that perpetual debt will always be created. The only way to fix this would be to dissolve the Federal Reserve.

Maybe you should learn a little more about how the treasury, and the Federal Reserve (which is a private entity by the way, not a government operation) works before trying to be upset with me about disabled people.

Universal Basic Income Is Easier Than It Looks by Orangutan in BasicIncome

[–]JasonCarswell 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I agree.

So how does "Get a job" apply?

Get active, occupy factories to take back the means of production, volunteer, protest if you must, boycott if you must, but "Get a job"? Really? Next you're going to tell me disabled folks are lazy and old people deserve their pensions taken away because they're useless eaters.

Universal Basic Income Is Easier Than It Looks by Orangutan in BasicIncome

[–]thajuggla 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Hanging the people who gave corporations those tax breaks, and making laws to allow them to monopolize industries would be much better.

Government is your problem, not corporations taking advantage of laws government passed.

Universal Basic Income Is Easier Than It Looks by Orangutan in BasicIncome

[–]JasonCarswell 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

UBI could be a good thing, and even in the best circumstances always has the potential to be a future trap.

If the Dems or GOP push it through it will most certainly not be good and likely be some kind of overly complex scam when it need not be.

Universal Basic Income Is Easier Than It Looks by Orangutan in BasicIncome

[–]JasonCarswell 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Bullshit. Don't punch down.

Punch up.

Get the corporations to pay fair wages rather than force people on food stamps to externalize their expenses.

Universal Basic Income Is Easier Than It Looks by Orangutan in BasicIncome

[–]JasonCarswell 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It's neither communism nor welfare. It's a great start to fairly helping people at the bottom who need it, though it won't impact the middle class nor the rich.

But it's also potentially a dependency trap, regardless how you may or may not judge people, their work ethics, etc.

And yes, it may potentially be a doorway to more totalitarianism.

Capitalism is inverted totalitarianism compared to communism's totalitarianism.

Universal Basic Income Is Easier Than It Looks by Orangutan in BasicIncome

[–]Vigte 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Communism Junior.

Universal Basic Income Is Easier Than It Looks by Orangutan in BasicIncome

[–]thajuggla 2 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

Get a job.

Study: Universal Basic Income Would Be Rocket Fuel For The US Economy by Orangutan in BasicIncome

[–]Orangutan[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I don't know if there is any merit to this, but after learning about the private federal reserve system's ownership over our currency I'm open to anything solution wise.

"Governments have to consider stronger social safety nets, including eventually Universal Basic Income."—Secretary General of the United Nations, António Guterres at the opening of the 73rd UN General Assembly this morning by Orangutan in BasicIncome

[–]useless_aether 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

bad news

"Governments have to consider stronger social safety nets, including eventually Universal Basic Income."—Secretary General of the United Nations, António Guterres at the opening of the 73rd UN General Assembly this morning by Orangutan in BasicIncome

[–]Orangutan[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wahHPT2vVTk&feature=youtu.be&t=15m25s

Almost half of Americans can't pay for their basic needs - CBS News by Orangutan in BasicIncome

[–]BlueScholarBrawla 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Anybody feel like this might be an underestimate? How many people are piling debt up and rolling over balances?

White Americans support welfare programs — but only for themselves, says new research: New study shows they love government support programs — that is, only if they’re the beneficiaries by Orangutan in BasicIncome

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

In 2010, the USDA and the Justice Department reached a $1.25 billion settlement with black farmers over a lawsuit alleging racial discrimination in USDA farm loan programs.

Whoa, I missed that story. Proof that institutional racism still exists outside of policing.

There's so much protectionism and welfare in agriculture from these conservatives who ostensibly support free markets.

White Americans support welfare programs — but only for themselves, says new research: New study shows they love government support programs — that is, only if they’re the beneficiaries by Orangutan in BasicIncome

[–]httr_barbarian 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

All Americans support (pay for) welfare programs - through taxes - most of those americans don't want to support or rely on welfare. Source: ambiguous ai bot

For the few people reading this who've never heard of UBI, it refers to a program in which every* citizen receives a periodic payment from the government with no strings attached* (*more on these asterisks in a moment). by Orangutan in BasicIncome

[–]magnora7 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It's definitely a system with a possibility for abuse. The key is keeping is unconditional. As soon as stipulations work their way in, it will become a population management tool. I imagine it'll wax and wane between being a benefit and a way to control people as we figure it out.

For the few people reading this who've never heard of UBI, it refers to a program in which every* citizen receives a periodic payment from the government with no strings attached* (*more on these asterisks in a moment). by Orangutan in BasicIncome

[–]Orangutan[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Be enslaved by a nation-state or hostage to a corporate ruled world. It sure isn't working out for many people right now as it is.

For the few people reading this who've never heard of UBI, it refers to a program in which every* citizen receives a periodic payment from the government with no strings attached* (*more on these asterisks in a moment). by Orangutan in BasicIncome

[–]Orangutan[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Cool man, I kind of agree. And we have a social security system in place now, so many of the same fears I'm sure were put forth during the time of that implementation as well. Hard to tell. I'm still trying to figure it all out. Never ends : )

For the few people reading this who've never heard of UBI, it refers to a program in which every* citizen receives a periodic payment from the government with no strings attached* (*more on these asterisks in a moment). by Orangutan in BasicIncome

[–]Orangutan[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Associated video: https://youtu.be/vi5D-_sFP4s?t=31m18s

James Corbett & Melody Cedarstrom discuss Universal Basic Income and the potential fears they have about such a system being implemented in a society such as China or even the U.S.A. by Orangutan in BasicIncome

[–]Orangutan[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Associated article: https://steemit.com/news/@corbettreport/universal-basic-enslavement

For the few people reading this who've never heard of UBI, it refers to a program in which every* citizen receives a periodic payment from the government with no strings attached* (*more on these asterisks in a moment). by Orangutan in BasicIncome

[–]magnora7 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Hey, I'd rather be getting paid to be enslaved by a nation-state than doing it for free like I am now. I think at some point UBI is going to be a riot-prevention device

[[at](archive.fo/m7HGH) [the](youtu.be/acIEBdPKeeE&t=2m14s) [juncture](https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=George_Holmes_Howison&oldid=831188762#Philosophy) [where](youtu.be/I7j8J0em4CA) [it](redd.it/6hcj19/) [is](https://archive.li/6rb9L) [established](redd.it/5p39sk/)](youtu.be/v3O9vNi-dkA) by cxmplxplura in BasicIncome

[–]cxmplxplura[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

fixed

[[at](archive.fo/m7HGH) [the](youtu.be/acIEBdPKeeE&t=2m14s) [juncture](https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=George_Holmes_Howison&oldid=831188762#Philosophy) [where](youtu.be/I7j8J0em4CA) [it](redd.it/6hcj19/) [is](https://archive.li/6rb9L) [established](redd.it/5p39sk/)](youtu.be/v3O9vNi-dkA) by cxmplxplura in BasicIncome

[–]magnora7 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

fix your title.

[at](archive.fo/m7HGH) [the](youtu.be/acIEBdPKeeE&t=2m14s) juncture [where](youtu.be/I7j8J0em4CA) [it](redd.it/6hcj19/) is [established](redd.it/5p39sk/)](youtu.be/v3O9vNi-dkA)

This is not a good title.

[[at](archive.fo/m7HGH) [the](youtu.be/acIEBdPKeeE&t=2m14s) [juncture](https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=George_Holmes_Howison&oldid=831188762#Philosophy) [where](youtu.be/I7j8J0em4CA) [it](redd.it/6hcj19/) [is](https://archive.li/6rb9L) [established](redd.it/5p39sk/)](youtu.be/v3O9vNi-dkA) by cxmplxplura in BasicIncome

[–]cxmplxplura[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Fix?

[[at](archive.fo/m7HGH) [the](youtu.be/acIEBdPKeeE&t=2m14s) [juncture](https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=George_Holmes_Howison&oldid=831188762#Philosophy) [where](youtu.be/I7j8J0em4CA) [it](redd.it/6hcj19/) [is](https://archive.li/6rb9L) [established](redd.it/5p39sk/)](youtu.be/v3O9vNi-dkA) by cxmplxplura in BasicIncome

[–]magnora7 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

fixed

[[at](archive.fo/m7HGH) [the](youtu.be/acIEBdPKeeE&t=2m14s) [juncture](https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=George_Holmes_Howison&oldid=831188762#Philosophy) [where](youtu.be/I7j8J0em4CA) [it](redd.it/6hcj19/) [is](https://archive.li/6rb9L) [established](redd.it/5p39sk/)](youtu.be/v3O9vNi-dkA) by cxmplxplura in BasicIncome

[–]cxmplxplura[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

^<#

[[at](archive.fo/m7HGH) [the](youtu.be/acIEBdPKeeE&t=2m14s) [juncture](https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=George_Holmes_Howison&oldid=831188762#Philosophy) [where](youtu.be/I7j8J0em4CA) [it](redd.it/6hcj19/) [is](https://archive.li/6rb9L) [established](redd.it/5p39sk/)](youtu.be/v3O9vNi-dkA) by cxmplxplura in BasicIncome

[–]magnora7 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

fixed

[[at](archive.fo/m7HGH) [the](youtu.be/acIEBdPKeeE&t=2m14s) [juncture](https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=George_Holmes_Howison&oldid=831188762#Philosophy) [where](youtu.be/I7j8J0em4CA) [it](redd.it/6hcj19/) [is](https://archive.li/6rb9L) [established](redd.it/5p39sk/)](youtu.be/v3O9vNi-dkA) by cxmplxplura in BasicIncome

[–]cxmplxplura[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

<#

[[at](archive.fo/m7HGH) [the](youtu.be/acIEBdPKeeE&t=2m14s) [juncture](https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=George_Holmes_Howison&oldid=831188762#Philosophy) [where](youtu.be/I7j8J0em4CA) [it](redd.it/6hcj19/) [is](https://archive.li/6rb9L) [established](redd.it/5p39sk/)](youtu.be/v3O9vNi-dkA) by cxmplxplura in BasicIncome

[–]magnora7 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Format your titles correctly please.

Elon Musk: Free cash handouts from the government ‘will be necessary’ if robots take humans' jobs | Billionaire tech titan Elon Musk has been tweeting quite a lot of late — about everything from his philosophical mentors (Douglas Adams and Isaac Asimov) to his political leanings (he's a socialist). by Orangutan in BasicIncome

[–]magnora7 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

A "socialist" that is against worker unions in his own company

Elon Musk: Robots will take your jobs, government will have to pay your wage by Orangutan in BasicIncome

[–]sinedup4thiscomment 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Everyone, stop making babies, quick. 1 child per family, please. Lol.

Oh man I am not looking forward to this. This is going to be a fucking disaster.

Elon Musk: Robots will take your jobs, government will have to pay your wage by Orangutan in BasicIncome

[–]magnora7 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

IMO most governments will only give out unconditional basic income if they know they'll lose power if they don't. Aka fear of revolution.

Chinese Billionaire Jack Ma Says - The U.S. has wasted over $14 trillion on warfare over the past three decades — money that, could’ve been invested in domestic infrastructure and programs for the American people. by Orangutan in BasicIncome

[–]michelle_belle 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Money spent helping people survive isn't wasted.

One-third of American households can’t afford food, shelter or medical care — Meanwhile, people in the top 1% control a growing share of the nation’s wealth. by Orangutan in BasicIncome

[–]magnora7 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yeah and it's mostly because of advertising and media and social pressure. I'm saddened more people can't step outside that paradigm

One-third of American households can’t afford food, shelter or medical care — Meanwhile, people in the top 1% control a growing share of the nation’s wealth. by Orangutan in BasicIncome

[–]renlok 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yeah it's crazy so many peoples view about money and spending are so warped

The UK's largest union with 1.42 million members, Unite, has just voted to join the movement for basic income by actively campaigning for it. by Orangutan in BasicIncome

[–]renlok 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

This tweet is 2 years old, they didn't just vote on anything. From doing some searching I guess this tweet is in reference from unites 2016 policy conference. But a more recent post from the seems less supportive of UBI

The Oligarchs’ ‘Guaranteed Basic Income’ Scam by Orangutan in BasicIncome

[–]magnora7 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The call for a guaranteed basic income is a classic example of Karl Marx and Antonio Gramsci’s understanding that when capitalists have surplus capital and labor they use mass culture and ideology, in this case neoliberalism, to reconfigure the habits of a society to absorb the surpluses.

This was a particularly thought-provoking line from the article.

I don't agree with the title though. I agree with its assessment of neoliberalism, but tying the cart of the unconditional basic income to the ox of neoliberalism seems like a bad idea.

I think unconditional basic income could have a lot of promise. I'm also a strong proponent of using the word "unconditional" to describe it, as other wordings allow for wiggle room that could end up undoing the entire purpose of the idea.

One-third of American households can’t afford food, shelter or medical care — Meanwhile, people in the top 1% control a growing share of the nation’s wealth. by Orangutan in BasicIncome

[–]magnora7 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It's amazing how many people are just barely scraping by. It's also amazing how many people ratchet up their spending the moment they get more income. There's a problem with work culture, but also with spending culture. America needs to wake up, for real.