SaidIt Survey: Ban /u/socks and /u/ActuallyNot or keep them around?

submitted by JasonCarswell from self.AskSaidIt

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[–][deleted] 10 insightful - 6 fun10 insightful - 5 fun11 insightful - 6 fun -  (51 children)

No matter how you feel about someone, they could surprise you with some insightful things to say. Disagreements can get out of hand on here, but that all depends on how much emotional work is going into it. That said, no. Both have posted some pain in the ass comments imo, but restrictions on their ability to post because of even escalated disagreements is stupid. We don't want our speech restricted, so why would we impose that on someone else simply because we don't like what they have to say or piss us off with their argument methods?

[–]soundsituation 8 insightful - 4 fun8 insightful - 3 fun9 insightful - 4 fun -  (18 children)

Okay, I'm curious: do you feel the same way about paid influencers? I agree with everything you said when it comes to free agents, but I think an exception should be made for shills, in the same way that I think individuals should be afforded maximum liberty but corporations should be held to a different standard.

[–][deleted] 7 insightful - 5 fun7 insightful - 4 fun8 insightful - 5 fun -  (0 children)

Companies should definitely be held to a different standard, and held accountable for having employees astroturf or do any paid activity that benefits their business while disrupting the natural discussion ecosystems.

[–]chadwickofwv 6 insightful - 5 fun6 insightful - 4 fun7 insightful - 5 fun -  (12 children)

I can agree that paid influencers should be banned, but how can you be sure someone is being paid for a post? I believe you have to default to free speech unless you can prove an account is a paid shill, not just a shill. I don't really believe this site has the resources for that type of investigation.

[–][deleted] 6 insightful - 4 fun6 insightful - 3 fun7 insightful - 4 fun -  (10 children)

As users, we don't unless something is obvious enough or there's strong evidence.

[–][deleted] 6 insightful - 3 fun6 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 3 fun -  (9 children)

It's obvious to most of us.

[–][deleted] 7 insightful - 5 fun7 insightful - 4 fun8 insightful - 5 fun -  (8 children)

Ok. I prefer giving people the benefit of the doubt.

[–][deleted] 9 insightful - 5 fun9 insightful - 4 fun10 insightful - 5 fun -  (7 children)

That's fine. I did as well, for half a year. I rejected the people who told me socks was a waste of time, because I was much softer on weak people back then.

But that user is incredibly inauthentic. You simply have not had the same level of exposure some of us have had. Hard work shows forth proper fruit, and dirty work shows forth rotten fruit. Socks only has the few authentic leftists here defending him, people who are most likely to fall for that account's lies and rhetoric. So, good on you for being influenced by some third-party.

[–][deleted] 6 insightful - 5 fun6 insightful - 4 fun7 insightful - 5 fun -  (5 children)

How long has socks been here?

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 4 fun3 insightful - 3 fun4 insightful - 4 fun -  (4 children)

Nov. 2020

This reminds me, if I may butt in: "inauthentic" is one of the various forms of strange name-calling I've only seen on Saidit, and I don't know what it means or why anyone has to use the term. It's just bullying, though I am surprised by the lengths to which some users will go to continually claim that users thay don't agree with are paid antifa, Soros, Chinese, Zionist, libtard, gay, non-white, furry, dominatrix, Opus Dei, Jesuit, Rothschild, Fauci, Big Pharma, CIA, NSA, terrorist shills. I've learned all of that here on Saidit. I previously had no idea one could be so talented. Lucky me.

[–][deleted] 5 insightful - 5 fun5 insightful - 4 fun6 insightful - 5 fun -  (3 children)

I'm guessing that it's meant to mean that you're not saying things that you truly agree with, and that you're adhering to a narrative that isn't necessarily your own-- one considered harmful, etc..

The issue is unwillingness to understand that not everyone feels the same. When both parties in an argument fervently believe that they're correct, they consider their opponent to be either woefully misguided, stupid, a troll, or a shill. Hilariously, no one likely has it all figured out. We create an armour out of our personal philosophies, and get all in a tizzy when someone tries to take a shot though.

I guess you just have to buckle in and assume your fursona, socks.

[–]JasonCarswell[S] 4 insightful - 4 fun4 insightful - 3 fun5 insightful - 4 fun -  (0 children)

Hard work shows forth proper fruit, and dirty work shows forth rotten fruit.

Poetic. Saved.

[–]JasonCarswell[S] 2 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

It's irrelevant if they're paid or not.
It's irrelevant if they shill or not.
We all have agendas.
It matters if they break the rules - perpetually.

[–][deleted] 5 insightful - 4 fun5 insightful - 3 fun6 insightful - 4 fun -  (3 children)

This is what u/D3rr needs to get through his head, unless he himself is ok with paid influencers acting on this website, willy nilly. Willy nilly, I say.

[–][deleted] 10 insightful - 5 fun10 insightful - 4 fun11 insightful - 5 fun -  (2 children)

unless he himself is ok with paid influencers acting on this website

Yes, I am fine with it for numerous reasons

  • this is anonymous social media, there is no way to stop it
  • there is no way to identify them aside from witch hunting, which can ruin a site even more than having paid shills. e.g. AOU and Poal
  • there are no rules that prohibit being a "paid influencer"
  • i already spent hours and hours developing custom user and sub blocking tools
  • not my site, im just the temporary janny

[–]JasonCarswell[S] 4 insightful - 4 fun4 insightful - 3 fun5 insightful - 4 fun -  (0 children)

My two cents: I agree.

I also think the rules should be enforced and perpetual downward trolls should be banned.

[–][deleted] 4 insightful - 3 fun4 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

I respect your position, although I disagree and think your position is dangerous.

Long live the reign of u/D3rr!!!

[–]Node 6 insightful - 7 fun6 insightful - 6 fun7 insightful - 7 fun -  (24 children)

Socks surprised me one time by pretending to be a legitimate person, and I got sucked into replying to him. Just have him blocked because he's the only troll-shill I get tempted to reply to.

[–][deleted] 5 insightful - 6 fun5 insightful - 5 fun6 insightful - 6 fun -  (22 children)

I either get bored, or just give up reason to respond. I'm sorrt of ashamed to admit this, but socks honestly reminds me so much of a friend that I've had for nearly 20 years irl that I can't block him. It's uncanny, down to similar goofy ass jokes and the way that he responds to things.

[–][deleted] 6 insightful - 4 fun6 insightful - 3 fun7 insightful - 4 fun -  (19 children)

You are advocating for an inauthentic user to be on this website, stirring shit. And you think Jason is wrong for trying to stop it.

It's not silly or goofy or harmless.

[–][deleted] 7 insightful - 5 fun7 insightful - 4 fun8 insightful - 5 fun -  (18 children)

I'm defending the ability for him to speak freely, and for you to do the same. I don't know how authentic socks is. I don't agree with the way that he dismisses information, the politicians he follows, or the covid vaccine opinions he's got. I can also yank up my big girl breetches and fucking ignore it when I choose to, because this is the internet and we're not revolutionaries in it.

[–][deleted] 6 insightful - 4 fun6 insightful - 3 fun7 insightful - 4 fun -  (17 children)

If you are ok with these sorts of spam-level users, then ok. Jason and I think it's a waste of time to entertain.

[–]Node 8 insightful - 5 fun8 insightful - 4 fun9 insightful - 5 fun -  (3 children)

I activated my sock-block, because something about the way he words things causes me to really want to reply with corrections. No problems ignoring the other trolls, shills, and puppets, but comments by socks cry out for corrections.

I would be okay with banning him if it didn't cause problems, but it would. Remember the banning drama back in the spring, and how that led to all those problems. m7 is still avoiding the internet (or at least saidit) because of some of the problems all that drama led to.

And where do you stop? ActuallyNot, the shalom guy, skeeters alts, and the list could keep growing.

It is a waste of time to entertain. But I fear there's an endless supply of people willing to feed them.

[–]JasonCarswell[S] 3 insightful - 4 fun3 insightful - 3 fun4 insightful - 4 fun -  (2 children)

m7 is still avoiding the internet (or at least saidit) because of some of the problems all that drama led to.

Do you know this to be true or is this speculation?

And where do you stop?

Stop where the rules stop. Most of the shills, trolls, commies, and Nazis on SaidIt actually abide by the rules, so for better or worse they can stay, but we can keep watch for when they break the rules - and hope the arbitrary judgement and courage of the admins will take action.

and the list could keep growing.

One storm a week is enough. Next week we can start the list. If SaidIt were to grow then we may need it. A.I., the culture war, and tyranny are also on the rise. Maybe it's a pointless witch hunt. We can take care to keep it fair. More later.

[–]Node 6 insightful - 3 fun6 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 3 fun -  (1 child)

m7 hasn't framed it that way, to my knowledge. But remember how cranky he was when he banned you, bobbobbybob, and musky?

As for banning rule violators, many of us would be gone already if the rules were strictly followed.

There's also some irony in banning only working with with users who aren't assholes.

[–]JasonCarswell[S] 4 insightful - 4 fun4 insightful - 3 fun5 insightful - 4 fun -  (0 children)

M7 took on the burden and refused to delegate or find any decent solution, topping it all off by abandoning his duties leaving someone incapable in charge with a deep grudge he instilled in them like a time bomb, unbeknownst to me, thus causing even more drama when I got temp-banned again.

"repeatedly dragging discussion in a downward direction"

It's the repetition that's critically key - and arbitrary.

There's also some irony in banning only working with with users who aren't assholes.

Perhaps, LOL, I don't know what that says about me, as I've been banned twice, and officially resurrected twice. Maybe I'm the grey area around the asshole if I'm not one directly - or double sized.

[–][deleted] 6 insightful - 6 fun6 insightful - 5 fun7 insightful - 6 fun -  (12 children)

I just don't give them the same level of care. If you don't consider them worthy of entertainment, that's understandable, but why even engage them? It's just going to devolve into getting pissed off and getting nowhere as a result. Proving points to them might work. Maybe. But letting shit get out of hand and calling each other liars or accusing each other of anything at all will probably net you a spike in blood pressure and a lot of time pissed away into the ether.

[–][deleted] 4 insightful - 6 fun4 insightful - 5 fun5 insightful - 6 fun -  (11 children)

I understand your arguments, and I think they are stupid. Shills and trolls should be dealt with accordingly.

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 5 fun3 insightful - 4 fun4 insightful - 5 fun -  (2 children)

Neat. I think your arguments are stupid too. Glad we got that out of the way.

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 5 fun3 insightful - 4 fun4 insightful - 5 fun -  (1 child)

Neato!

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

Don't drag down the discussion with comments like this. If you want to "deal" with "shills and trolls (if you can find any), you can 'report' them. Mods will see the reports and decide accordingly. It's really simple.

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 3 fun -  (6 children)

I'm not one to cry to u/D3rr. I'll do it for bots or known alts.

I didn't start this thread, you know. I just don't care for pretenders and support getting rid of them.

[–]Node 5 insightful - 6 fun5 insightful - 5 fun6 insightful - 6 fun -  (1 child)

You very much remind me of a friend that I've had here for nearly 20 years saying that.

All of us on saidit are doppelgangers of your real life friends. 😁

[–][deleted] 4 insightful - 5 fun4 insightful - 4 fun5 insightful - 5 fun -  (0 children)

It starts to feel like that, no shit.

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 4 fun3 insightful - 3 fun4 insightful - 4 fun -  (0 children)

So, you're saying, he's good at what he does? XD

[–]JasonCarswell[S] 7 insightful - 4 fun7 insightful - 3 fun8 insightful - 4 fun -  (6 children)

because we don't like what they have to say

That is NOT the issue. You missed the point. What about the rule-breaking?

[–][deleted] 8 insightful - 6 fun8 insightful - 5 fun9 insightful - 6 fun -  (5 children)

Socks made the point before that he's going to defend himself. No matter what his reasons are for being here are, I fully expect him and anyone else to defend themselves to a degree. That goes for you as well.

HOWEVER: You're not innocent here. You drag discussion down with your relentless vigilante complex in trying to out the shills, slamming out paragraph after paragraph, following their posts, and just acting like a tattler. Fucking block them. You're investing far too much into bullshit internet arguments with people you don't know from Adam's housecat. You post quality content, and around this time last year I remember you being pretty civil and focused heavily on multiple projects. I don't know what's going on in your life to make you turn away from those projects, or what changed in your personal life, but you need to find something else to put yourself into other than focusing on specific users on here that you get your ass hairs in a bunch over.

[–][deleted] 5 insightful - 4 fun5 insightful - 3 fun6 insightful - 4 fun -  (1 child)

You should not defend shills.

[–]Airbus320 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Nor jews

[–]ShalomEveryone 4 insightful - 5 fun4 insightful - 4 fun5 insightful - 5 fun -  (1 child)

Well said, I am surprised he did not reply to your post calling you a shill.

Shalom

✡️️

[–][deleted] 5 insightful - 5 fun5 insightful - 4 fun6 insightful - 5 fun -  (0 children)

Thank you. Eh, just give it time.

[–]JasonCarswell[S] 3 insightful - 4 fun3 insightful - 3 fun4 insightful - 4 fun -  (0 children)

HOWEVER: You're not innocent here.

Maybe not. Maybe I am. Depends how you look at it.

You drag discussion down with your relentless vigilante complex in trying to out the shills,

I agree. That's the only way I know of to collect the evidence without actually stalking them. I happen across their bullshit or they respond or comment on my posts. Those are the random frictions that may spark into a blaze.

slamming out paragraph after paragraph,

I do this everywhere anyway. This is not unique to my efforts to rid SaidIt of the worst rule-breakers.

following their posts, and just acting like a tattler.

This is 100% bullshit. We're supposed to report problems to the mods and admins to help them maintain this site and civil discourse.

Fucking block them.

Fucking block me if you don't want to read my shit. The block feature is VERY incomplete and is presently one of the shittiest features on SaidIt that is a detriment to our community, IMO.

You're investing far too much

Maybe you're not invested enough.

If you know of a better forum for truth-seeking and free-thinking in our world being strangled by globalists' agendas, then let me know. I'm here to learn, share, grow, improve this community and resist tyranny.

what's going on in your life

I have no shortage of projects. Obviously I've been sharing awareness about /s/Agenda21_Agenda2030, /s/Banksters, /s/Canada, /s/ClassWar, /s/ClimateSkeptics, /s/Coronavirus, /s/CorruptScience, /s/CultureWars, /s/FoodCrises, /s/FuckMasks, /s/Justice_v_Injustice, /s/LockdownSkepticism, /s/NoNewNormal, /s/Politics, /s/Pushback, /s/ResistanceAnalysis, /s/Surveillance, /s/Technocracy, /s/Tyranny, /s/VaccineInjuries, /s/VaccineSkepticism, and Zionism - among other things. Locally I've been active distributing /s/Druthers and organizing and co-leading resistance Freedom Rallies with /s/StandUpWindsor. And I've been helping several seniors that are very aware (3 days this week), though I really should focus more on my farther reaching online /s/Cassy projects including /s/LeverMind my new video channel, in progress, and /s/Projex a wiki for any kind of project, especially tyranny resistance, coming soon.

to make you turn away from those projects

They are still in development.

you need to

You need to stop judging people.

focusing on specific users

If you think one interaction per season is "focusing" then you need to check your eyes.

Those specific users are disruptive trolls who have been perpetually breaking Rule #1 "If a person is caught repeatedly dragging discussion in a downward direction on the Pyramid of Debate, they will be removed."

If you are too myopic to see the harm socks and ActuallyNot are doing to our SaidIt community then you need to take a look and focus. Besides my testimony others may give you their abundance of stories and evidence if you ask.

Lastly, if d3rr had enforced the rules, I would not have made this post and the matter would have died on the branch of that discussion where it occurred.