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How do you get rid of a bad renter?(self)

68 points67 points70 points submitted by Zapped

I have some rental properties. They are not my primary income (or much of any income right now) but are part of my retirement plan. I have a renter in a duplex who has turned into a hoarder. I have been trying to work with her for almost a year, but towards the end of last year, she stopped all communication with me except for paying the rent. The smell went from bad to unbearable for the upstairs neighbor. I had given her an ultimatum in September and she started to clean up. Since she has some other issues going on, I offered to help or even do it for her free of charge as a one-time thing. Once I filed an order of eviction, she stopped paying rent, which is secondary to me right now. She didn't show up to court and I got an activist magistrate who dismissed the case because "she is now on a month-to-month lease instead of yearly" and is not subject to the rules of the lease. I didn't understand, but that same week, the renter contacted me saying she was moving and started cleaning things out. I'm talking about a full sized dumpster of trash from a 1200 square foot apartment.

I thought we were good and would be able to start working on the house in a couple of weeks. No. After the dismissal, the clean-up stopped. I filed again, but this time with knowingly vandalizing and health code violations with photos, my personal testimony, and witness statements. The same magistrate dismissed based on insufficient evidence. ????? At the last hearing, the bailiff told me that the city does not want any renters being kicked out right now because of Covid-19.

I have now lost an excellent renter upstairs because of her and have no income to replace a mortgage, insurance, and taxes that the city will come after me for. I have filed a third time and will call the health department next week to see where that gets me. I suspect this renter has, let's say, a personality trait/mental condition that is affecting her decision making. Not her fault, but I can't help people who don't accept help.

I am asking for advice or person al stories to help me speed up the process of getting her out of the house.

all 68 comments

[deleted] 13 insightful - 4 fun13 insightful - 3 fun14 insightful - 4 fun 3 years ago

She didn't show up to court and I got an activist magistrate who dismissed the case

Is that an elected position? If so: you might be able to start a recall petition.

she is now on a month-to-month lease instead of yearly

That just means you have to follow the rules of your state's default month-to-month lease. I may be wrong, but in most states: you can terminate the lease for any or no reason one month after providing notice to the tenant of your intention. Most states also have three-day notices for vandalism.

In most cases: the default lease agreement favors the landlord much more than any agreement you worked out with your tenant. The only reason they said that was to intimidate you; they're hoping you won't bother to read the statutes.

I filed again, but this time with knowingly vandalizing and health code violations with photos, my personal testimony, and witness statements.

You might be able to press criminal charges for destruction of property. You can report the tenant to the police, but there's no guarantee the prosecutor won't drop the charges, or that a jury would deliver a guilty verdict, but it's worth a try.

At the last hearing, the bailiff told me that the city does not want any renters being kicked out right now because of Covid-19.

That worries me, because the city might be making a coordinated effort against you. That means you're unlikely to get anyone to cut you an inch of slack. In that case, you'd have to sue the city for refusing to enforce state law.

I have filed a third time and will call the health department next week to see where that gets me.

That's a good idea; you need to deal with anyone other than that, presumably Democrat, magistrate.

I suspect this renter has, let's say, a personality trait/mental condition that is affecting her decision making.

And the magistrate is just enabling her, and making it worse. It's the magistrate's fault if the tenant ends up hurting herself.

Good luck!

Mandatory legal disclaimer: this is in no way legal or financial advice, you act upon this information at your own risk, and I am not liable for how you choose to use this information.

Zapped[S] 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun 3 years ago
  • Is that an elected position? If so: you might be able to start a recall petition.

The District Court Judge appoints magistrates here and I have her contact information as well as the chief magistrate's.

  • That just means you have to follow the rules of your state's default month-to-month lease.

The real estate laws in my state honor a month-to-month lease based on the original lease once the original expires. I didn't have that statute with me the first time or I would have presented it. This is what I will argue to the chief magistrate if this next hearing goes the same as the first two. Hopefully I get a different magistrate this time. I assumed it would be open-and-shut, especially since she hasn't shown up either time.

  • You might be able to press criminal charges for destruction of property. You can report the tenant to the police, but there's no guarantee the prosecutor won't drop the charges, or that a jury would deliver a guilty verdict, but it's worth a try.

If this hearing doesn't go my way and the health department fails me, I may have to take that route. It is the trash kind of hoarding more than the collection of junk type of hoarding. Plus, I don't think she takes her dog outside anymore. I will probably have to replace the 100 year old hardwood flooring once I get her out.

  • That worries me, because the city might be making a coordinated effort against you. That means you're unlikely to get anyone to cut you an inch of slack. In that case, you'd have to sue the city for refusing to enforce state law.

I'm hoping a discussion with the District Court Judge or assistant would produce results before a lawsuit against the city was taken. Also, it would be easier to call in a favor but I don't like going that route if I don't have to.

  • That's a good idea; you need to deal with anyone other than that, presumably Democrat, magistrate.

I assume she is Democrat, as the Judge who appointed her is.

[deleted] 4 insightful - 3 fun4 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 3 fun 3 years ago

The District Court Judge appoints magistrates here and I have her contact information as well as the chief magistrate's.

Ah, maybe you can talk to them?

The real estate laws in my state honor a month-to-month lease based on the original lease once the original expires.

Oh, huh. They're literally just ignoring the law, then.

I didn't have that statute with me the first time or I would have presented it.

You probably need to print out all the relevant statues, since the magistrate is obviously ignoring them. Doesn't guarantee they'll listen, but it'll make your cast much easier of you choose to sue the city later on, since you made them aware of the law and they chose not to enforce it.

Plus, I don't think she takes her dog outside anymore.

That's a potential negligence charge.

I will probably have to replace the 100 year old hardwood flooring once I get her out.

Damn. My dad's got'o replace the hardwood flooring in his grandparents's old house; it got torn up by a crack-head they rented it to...

I'm hoping a discussion with the District Court Judge or assistant would produce results before a lawsuit against the city was taken.

Yeah, you should definitely pursue that route first.

I assume she is Democrat, as the Judge who appointed her is.

Definitely a Democrat.

Again, best of luck!

Mandatory legal disclaimer: this is in no way legal or financial advice, you act upon this information at your own risk, and I am not liable for how you choose to use this information.

JasonCarswell 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun 3 years ago

COVID is a scam for the lockdown, new normal, great reset, etc. But maybe you could utilize this tool to your advantage.

I don't know how ethical it would be to somehow get her tested, but maybe you can find experts or whatever to testify that a messy place is a COVID vector.

This would be a terrible precedent to set for M/BILLIONS of messy people. But maybe it already exists.

For two months my place fell into chaos with my fucked up back (never that bad). It's now better than it was before.

What will her future be after your place? A hospital? The street?

[deleted] 13 insightful - 4 fun13 insightful - 3 fun14 insightful - 4 fun 3 years ago

[deleted]

Zapped[S] 6 insightful - 3 fun6 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 3 fun 3 years ago

If I can't get satisfaction after this hearing, I will explore that as one of my options. As TAM said, I think they are hoping I give up easily.

Node 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun 3 years ago

Make the house unlivable for her. Make her desperately want to be somewhere else. Then offer to have all her stuff hauled to storage, and pay a few months rent in advance.

I am considering, for the first time, hiring an attorney.

Hire some thugs, but discreetly. Do this after the storage offer, so she sees an option to get out.

Zapped[S] 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun 3 years ago

Supposedly she has an old family home to go to, but her deceased father had hoarded that one, too. I also heard that a cousin has cleaned it out so I maybe it needs major repair before she can move in. I have offered free help removing trash, packing her stuff up, and moving it to wherever she wants for free. She declined the offer and then cut off all communication except for a pro bono attorney that she stopped communicating with after a couple of weeks.

I wonder if no water, due to a random water pipe breaking, would speed up this process.

Node 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun 3 years ago

Be careful with utility shenanigans. Courts often heavily frown on that.

Losing water doesn't sound like enough of a hardship for this one. You might just end up with one of those Landlords Nightmare bathrooms, as plenty of pics have been posted about the worst tenants ever.

Is there any kind of 'landlords association' in your area you could ask for tips? Maybe if you search online for 'how to evict bad tenant in [yourstate]'?

The ways to get her out ASAP are pretty illegal in most places, but maybe you can find 'that one weird trick'.

Tums_is_Smut_bkwrds 12 insightful - 4 fun12 insightful - 3 fun13 insightful - 4 fun 3 years ago

Let's buy a property for rental income, I said. It will be great, I said.

Having been in a similar situation I have no advice for you, sorry. All you can do is keep trying to remove her by legal means. Hopefully eventually you'll hit upon a sympathetic official that will rule in your favor. Just be sure to document everything; every phone call, every conversation, everything.

This is why I never sign anything but a one year lease -- not that having a lease seems to have done you any good -- and when the year is up I act immediately, because if I let it slide even one month it's then assumed by the courts that it's now month-to-month and then as you know I literally have no recourse except to hope the tenant starts doing something illegal and I can get the cops involved.

When my current lease is up I'm selling the property even though I'm going to take a big hit. As tenants have gone they are not even that bad. But I've dropped the rent twice now and every month is still a struggle. And the house is slowly filling up with crap they're collecting.

Best wishes that you get it sorted out soon.

Zapped[S] 5 insightful - 3 fun5 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 3 fun 3 years ago

I turned my property management over to my bookkeeper and it has saved me so much headache. I am still involved with repairs and finding new renters, but I let her handle the contracts and money. It is my fault that I tried to work with the tenant because my bookkeeper wanted me to evict her months before. The law in my state accepts a month-to-month lease based on the written, signed lease if it is not renewed by the tenant. The magistrate is making up rules to keep her in there. Good luck selling your place. In my area, buyers are fighting over houses right now.

carn0ld03 12 insightful - 3 fun12 insightful - 2 fun13 insightful - 3 fun 3 years ago

Depending on where you live. If this is caused by a mental health problem, you may want to report the tenant, and all information you have on them to adult protective services or whatever similar agency operates in your properties area. Beyond that, I suggest that you only consult with your attorney on this matter. If anyone claims to be an attorney here, pm them for proof and only contact their offices for further consultation. Best of luck to you.

Zapped[S] 5 insightful - 4 fun5 insightful - 3 fun6 insightful - 4 fun 3 years ago

I suspect she is high-functioning autistic. She is a wiz with numbers as an account manager, but can't figure out some simple things like the weather and has weird food OCD like her food can't touch and she has to eat it in a certain order. We used to talk a lot when I would have work to do around the property before her mother moved in, which is part of the problem. Her mother is partially paralyzed from a stroke and now depends on her for everything. I think her mother was the junk hoarder and she is the trash hoarder. That's why I tried to work with her for so long until I had no choice. She refused all help from me. She's really a sweet girl, but it is crazy how this has progressed.

I am considering, for the first time, hiring an attorney. I know a couple of attorneys that I'd trust to give some reasonably priced, good representation.

Tophat123 12 insightful - 3 fun12 insightful - 2 fun13 insightful - 3 fun 3 years ago

Damn, do you live in a blue state shithole? This sounds like some shit they would come up with including invalidating your evidence.

Zapped[S] 5 insightful - 3 fun5 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 3 fun 3 years ago

My state? Red. The city this house is in? I wouldn't call it a shithole, but is blue. The Sheriff is cool, even though he's a Democrat. The mayor is ok, but goes along with the professional enablers. I'm leaning on getting a lawyer this time. A few hundred dollars could save me thousands of dollars in lost rent. She stopped paying rent three months ago and I imagine repairs are going to be in the $10,000 range with new floors.

[deleted] 7 insightful - 11 fun7 insightful - 10 fun8 insightful - 11 fun 3 years ago

I'd suggest asking u/EvilNick, mod of u/Landlords, but he got banned apparently.

The laws depend on your state. In my state I sign a 9 page lease, and if you piss off the apartment they harass you with monthly inspections until they find something that breaks that lease, don't do maintenance or not repair anything right (pretty sure that's not legal), or you get mad at them, they can say they feel threatened. Here the judges just rubber stamp the evictions, or used to.

Although I wonder if it might not be ultimately easier to try to bribe her to move.

[deleted] 14 insightful - 4 fun14 insightful - 3 fun15 insightful - 4 fun 3 years ago

u/EvilNick kept making death threats, so Magnora had to ban him.

FediNetizen 8 insightful - 10 fun8 insightful - 9 fun9 insightful - 10 fun 3 years ago

Just like he "had" to ban Muskrat for forging a photo he probably didn't even forge? Or triple bob?

[deleted] 13 insightful - 2 fun13 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 2 fun 3 years ago

Are you seriously advocating for allowing death threats on SaidIt? That would definitely get us shut down by the feds — if the woke hosting company doesn't get to us first. I'm surprised we're still up as is.

Node 3 insightful - 8 fun3 insightful - 7 fun4 insightful - 8 fun 3 years ago

Actual death threats to people on saidit like: "I'm going to find you and kill you on April 31st", or more of the 'neck yourself' kind?

[deleted] 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun 3 years ago

I'm just saying it would be a deep fantasy to see pelosi get sideswiped by a dumptruck.

Yeah, real clear and present danger there.

Airbus320 3 insightful - 4 fun3 insightful - 3 fun4 insightful - 4 fun 3 years ago

He forgot to say in minecraft

JasonCarswell 1 insightful - 3 fun1 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 3 fun 3 years ago

Clear and present danger of stepping in bullshit.

Zapped[S] 5 insightful - 11 fun5 insightful - 10 fun6 insightful - 11 fun 3 years ago

Dang. I've been reading some of his s/Landlords posts and comments and I like this EvilNick guy.

Node 3 insightful - 8 fun3 insightful - 7 fun4 insightful - 8 fun 3 years ago

u/EvilNick was another great user who has been banned recently. I'm wondering if saidit is planning to shut down, or just eliminate most users.

Zapped[S] 3 insightful - 7 fun3 insightful - 6 fun4 insightful - 7 fun 3 years ago

Heavy is the crown.

JasonCarswell 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun 3 years ago

He's not royalty. Just an ego.

Zapped[S] 4 insightful - 6 fun4 insightful - 5 fun5 insightful - 6 fun 3 years ago

I didn't know about that sub. Thanks.

The magistrate is using her authority to make up her own rules. I have some phone numbers to go above her, but that's a last resort. The real estate law here says that a month-to-month lease is valid and also verbal contracts are as good as written. It clearly says in the lease that it goes month-to-month with the same rules, which includes keeping the place clean. I have done all I can to help her move but she is refusing. The law also says that I have to do repairs even if she is behind on the rent. However, if the water pipes just happen to come loose in the basement while I'm checking on the HVAC, I think I would have an excuse not to get it repaired since she's not paying rent.

bjam27 11 insightful - 2 fun11 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 2 fun 3 years ago

Repeatedly call the police on her for unsafe living conditions. Hoarders are a danger to themselves and others around them, I've seen houses collapse because a hoarder had thousands of pounds of papers and magazines stored to the point hallways weren't passable. If you have an emergency contact you can try to enlist them to help. The utility companies might also care if its causing fire hazards.

Worst case is you could get the house declared condemned and get them out and then get it recertified but that would suck and cost a ton.

Zapped[S] 4 insightful - 4 fun4 insightful - 3 fun5 insightful - 4 fun 3 years ago

I found out from the upstairs tenant that her family has called adult services on her several times. The police stopped by a few times and didn't do anything but talk with her at the front door.

This is more of a trash hoarder type situation, although she does have a lot of junk in their, mainly clothing. It's not so much the weight as it is the rotten food causing foul smells, mold/mildew, and pest control problems. She also has changed the locks and the law says I'm not allowed to break in, even if I give her notice. I have to take her to court, but here we are.

JasonCarswell 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun 3 years ago

Not all hoarders are dangerous, not even close.

However, if there are excessive bad smells then there's obviously a serious problem and she seems extreme.

Hoarders have reasons for hoarding.

Some are organized and feel there's potential use for all that stuff, even if they don't know what it is yet or don't have the motivation or time to finish all their projects or "projects". Deciding to focus on what's necessary and/or possible takes courage.

Some are unorganized and get overwhelmed when one thing turns into a dozen turns into a thousand. Faced with a thousand things to clean up or organize it's just easier to procrastinate and ignore it. This solves nothing and the piles grow.

Some are so poor (or think they are) or are over-sentimental (over mental), and they find value in things most of us would find junk in our disposable consumer culture.

Some have health and mental health issues.

Some just don't give a fuuuuck.

Knowing their root issues may help, but it sounds like this one is beyond being open to help.

Regardless, compassion is critical even if they don't seem to deserve it.

I'm curious to know if she's on "anti"-depressants. I tried 17-18 different kinds with 5-6 doctors and they were ALL POISONS making me worse. I quit cold turkey and have since cured myself of my blind faith in SCIENTISM. I was not a hoarder but I was "a problem" on their poisons.

cc /u/Zapped

Zapped[S] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun 3 years ago

It's either genetic or learned from her parents. I have no knowledge of anti-depressants.